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Thread: Vulture -Adrian thomes

  1. #1

  2. #2
    When any character dice leaves the field vulture gets +4A until end of turn
    It can be triggered at any time.

    The +4 can be triggered multiple times I think, but I think it would be similar to the BAC Casualties ruling (http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=5705) where it is triggered off an effect and not a die.
    So, if you say KO a sidekick it would trigger once, but if the thing you used to KO a sidekick actually KOs 4 sidekicks at all once then it would still just be +4 since that was a single effect causing dice to leave the field.
    After that if you say sacrifice a character in the same turn that would then add another +4 because that was a different effect that removes a die from the field.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jigsawhc View Post
    Looks like I was wrong and it is per die: http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=9016
    That's crazy! The use of Vulture along Hulk could make a +20A character... and add it TCFW for both character leaving the field and pumping the attack...

    That Wizkids guy must be wrong.

  5. #5
    Whether he screwed up or not, we have something that can be seen as official now, so this is how it will be ruled. Well, just need some overcrush/silver sable and a bunch of KO targets, vulture is a monstrous beaststick for my villains now.

  6. #6
    Vulture is still a VERY weak defense character, with no innate protections. 2 damage kills him, Mera, stops him, Distraction stops him, Transfer power stops him, Grundy stops him, etc. There are many ways to make Vulture huge, but even easier ways to make him not huge. Yes he's scary, but arguably no scarier than 2 guy Gardners or a Lantern ring in the field. Vulture is a card that will lead players to try to put all of their eggs in one basket, and while that is a possible strategy for him, he is highly susceptible to hard counters.

    Powerful, of course. unstoppable, not in the least.

  7. #7
    Does the rare Umber Hulk ability remove all your opponent's characters (lvl 1 &2) from the field during the reroll or do game rules only consider the ones that came up energy to be removed from the field?

  8. #8
    When you reroll a die, it does not move its location. This is why when you Parallax a bunch of characters, and they come up characters again, you can't refield them, they are already in the field.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    When you reroll a die, it does not move its location. This is why when you Parallax a bunch of characters, and they come up characters again, you can't refield them, they are already in the field.
    Agreed, the only way you can actually refield them is for them to come up energy so they go to the reserve pool, then roll them again and get a character for you you field them all over again.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Vulture is still a VERY weak defense character, with no innate protections. 2 damage kills him, Mera, stops him, Distraction stops him, Transfer power stops him, Grundy stops him, etc. There are many ways to make Vulture huge, but even easier ways to make him not huge. Yes he's scary, but arguably no scarier than 2 guy Gardners or a Lantern ring in the field. Vulture is a card that will lead players to try to put all of their eggs in one basket, and while that is a possible strategy for him, he is highly susceptible to hard counters.

    Powerful, of course. unstoppable, not in the least.

    Transfer power doesnt change the boosts, just the printed attack value on the dice right?

  11. #11
    As the boosts are temporary triggered bonuses, they could be stolen with Transfer Power. Guy Gardner can't have his bonuses stolen because he gets a bonus for each attacking character at all times. In fact, Guy's bonuses are reduced if you distract ko or otherwise remove attackers from the field, unlike Vultures bonuses that are gained when a trigger occurs.

    Similarly you couldn't get rid of Katana's Bonus unless you remove villains, but you could steal a bonus granted to Thor: God of Thunder for each opposing Fist character.

    Triggered effect, stealable, Static effect, no stealable.

  12. #12

  13. #13

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jojodadevil View Post
    So to add to this discussion has anyone asked about character die. To me this does not include side kicks because they are side kick die not character die they are characters in the field but they will never be character die.
    Actually, when they're fielded, sidekicks become character dice as long as they are in the Field Zone (and the Attack Zone, of course). When they leave the Field Zone, they stop counting as character dice.

    So in short, yes, it does include sidekicks. They probably used the term "character dice" to avoid people claiming that only one of their four Tsarinas gets damaged or something.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jojodadevil View Post
    So to add to this discussion has anyone asked about character die. To me this does not include side kicks because they are side kick die not character die they are characters in the field but they will never be character die.
    A sidekick die is a character die in the field zone.

    ASM Rule book page 22

    MORE ABOUT DICE
    Rolled dice in the Field Zone or in your Reserve Pool are considered to
    be whatever their face is. If you have a Sidekick Die in the Reserve Pool
    showing energy, then its an energy die. If you have a Sidekick showing
    the character face in your field, then its a Character Die.
    Typically if the card refers to just "character" that means all the dice of that character and only triggers once, but if it refers to "character dice" it means each die. But the word character hasn't always been consistent so WKRF for clarifications.

  16. #16
    Guess what I just found

    http://wizkids.com/dicemasters/dice-masters-faq/

    Q: What happens to a captured die if the capturing die is captured, rerolled, or otherwise changed such that the power is no longer available?

    A: On Page 21 of the rulebook, under the Capturing, Controlling, and Copying section, “Once the capturing ends, place the die wherever it came from (the text on the capturing die’s card will tell you where you captured it from).” If the capturing die is somehow changed (through rerolling, etc), and is removed from the field, its ability is no longer in play, so the captured die would be returned to where you captured it from.
    Rerolling = Leaving the Field.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    Guess what I just found

    http://wizkids.com/dicemasters/dice-masters-faq/

    Rerolling = Leaving the Field.
    That's a non-sequitur.

    Changing the die by rerolling leads to being removed from the field, such as by being rolled to an energy face. It will cause the die to leave the field, but not because it was rerolled, but because of the face it was rolled to and how those faces interact with with the field.

    The fact that there is a comma and conjunction separating to the two clearly marks a distinction between them, meaning: rerolling is implicitly not leaving the field.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    That's a non-sequitur.

    Changing the die by rerolling leads to being removed from the field, such as by being rolled to an energy face. It will cause the die to leave the field, but not because it was rerolled, but because of the face it was rolled to and how those faces interact with with the field.

    The fact that there is a comma and conjunction separating to the two clearly marks a distinction between them, meaning: rerolling is implicitly not leaving the field.
    Ok, to clarify: rerolling to energy causes the character die to leave the field, resulting in the end of capture.

  19. #19

  20. #20
    I did not see that ruling coming at all. The weird thing is they're calling that the intuitive approach when it seems totally counter-intuitive to me. Mind blown.

  21. #21
    Holy Crap they answered questions again...and good ones!

  22. #22
    Suddenly Adrian Toomes becomes a heck of a lot better. And yeah, it really seems against intuition, but apparently not.

  23. #23
    It is how they ruled it. He is that much more beefy yes, but there are ways around him.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by IsaacBV View Post
    It is how they ruled it. He is that much more beefy yes, but there are ways around him.
    Vulture isn't the problem. The problem is WizKids ignoring their rules in order to fix the problem of how they originally wrote them. The issue at hand is whether or not energy dice "remember" what kind of die they are and whether the movement of dice is part of the effect or pay off the game mechanics as established by the rulebooks and FAQ.

    It's honestly a good thing that WizKids is ruling this way as it's a much better system, but it's completely inconsistent with the system currently in place.

    It's essentially WizKids doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.

  25. #25
    Character die is in the field -> effect happens -> character die is no longer in the field.

    Honestly even if energy wasn't forced to the Reserve Pool, the mere fact that it was on a character face and is no longer on a character face means that character has left the field.

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