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Thread: Possible solution to lessen the first turn advantage

  1. #1

    Possible solution to lessen the first turn advantage

    So seeing how strong that first turn advantage is during nationals with all these bombs going off during turn three before you even had a chance to field your characters or have adequate resources to defend yourself, what do you guys think of a summoner type sickness implemented during the first 3 turns of a game? Ive been toying with this idea for a while and looking at games at nationals I think this could help weaken the 1st turn advantage by allowing the second player to establish some defenses before a bomb can go off forcing the first player to spend more resources/sacrificing ramp for trying to make a aggressive push.

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    I almost like the thought of forcing the first player to only roll three dice first turn. I don't know what the best solution will be.

    Summoning sickness may be too much of a change.

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    I like the idea that Player 1 starts the game with all 8 dice in their bag. Player 2 starts with 4 in the bag, 4 in the used pile. So you're guaranteed to refill your bag on your 2nd turn, giving yourself a chance to pull whatever you purchased on turn 1. If it's a two cost, and you use PXG twice after your first turn, you have an 80% chance of pulling that 2 cost character before Player 1's third turn.

  5. #5
    To be fair, there was only one turn three bomb that went off for lethal, and that was me. However there still is a first player advantage for sure. It's not 100%, but it's high enough that it's not an accident.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    I like the idea that Player 1 starts the game with all 8 dice in their bag. Player 2 starts with 4 in the bag, 4 in the used pile. So you're guaranteed to refill your bag on your 2nd turn, giving yourself a chance to pull whatever you purchased on turn 1. If it's a two cost, and you use PXG twice after your first turn, you have an 80% chance of pulling that 2 cost character before Player 1's third turn.
    Oooh. Pretty slick. I may just have to test this idea.

  7. #7
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    I like the idea that Player 1 starts the game with all 8 dice in their bag. Player 2 starts with 4 in the bag, 4 in the used pile. So you're guaranteed to refill your bag on your 2nd turn, giving yourself a chance to pull whatever you purchased on turn 1. If it's a two cost, and you use PXG twice after your first turn, you have an 80% chance of pulling that 2 cost character before Player 1's third turn.
    Two cost, PXG once, resurrection once. That's a money shot.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy View Post
    I like the idea that Player 1 starts the game with all 8 dice in their bag. Player 2 starts with 4 in the bag, 4 in the used pile. So you're guaranteed to refill your bag on your 2nd turn, giving yourself a chance to pull whatever you purchased on turn 1. If it's a two cost, and you use PXG twice after your first turn, you have an 80% chance of pulling that 2 cost character before Player 1's third turn.
    I like this option too, but what if player two could start with the 4 dice, rolled and in his reserve? This would give him global interaction on turn 1 (just like his opponent would have) and allow him to PXG or resurrect if needed, but wouldn't allow him to buy or get sidekicks on the board.

    This might be too much of an advantage, but could easily be worded as "Setup up: Both players roll 4 dice and place them in their reserve pool, the first player then proceeds with his first turn, skipping his first clear and draw step."

  9. #9
    2015 Canadian and 2016 US National Champion
    350

    Location
    Akron, OH
    Blog Entries
    2
    Another option, field sk, BEWD, 3 cost, then res. Seems pretty powerful...

  10. #10
    Yeah, the danger is that a change could consequentially make player two have too much of an advantage.

  11. #11
    Randy's idea might be really good, but also might be overpowered. The big worry would be whether or not its overpowered that way with current PXG ramp. I have to say I like the idea of it pretty well though. Definitely worth playtesting though! The one thing that does worry me about it some. Does it make used pile manipulation even more of a necessity. As in, are you pigeon holed into running PXG or Resurrection even more because if you go second it just becomes too important to leave out of builds.

  12. #12
    First player does not get a reroll turn one is my proposed fix.

  13. #13
    This might be the simplest solution I've seen. It doesn't break anything or add something crazy complicated that could impact future turns. There are, of course, times when your first roll is perfect, but as we said many times at Nationals, these are dice.

    There are times when everything is perfect, then there are times when two turns in a row a die rolls AND rerolls to a sidekick, like in round four of Swiss in Nationals.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    ...There are times when everything is perfect, then there are times when two turns in a row a die rolls AND rerolls to a sidekick, like in round four of Swiss in Nationals.
    This sounds not so oddly specific.

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  16. #16
    Right, but it does enough that the first player gets no mitigation. I see comparisons between MTG and playing vs. drawing and how the second player gets something extra, but in a game similar to a deckbuilder played with dice, I think removing the option for better rolls for player one is a step in the right direction.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Walsh View Post
    First player does not get a reroll turn one is my proposed fix.
    Agreed. Brilliant!

  18. #18
    The idea of no reroll for the player going first is elegant. We should try it out in some games to see how it works out in practice.

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  20. #20
    We have been playing with this new rule a bunch, and it really can slow down the initial ramp. I might be sold on it.

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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by thadiff View Post
    Here's the issue with that: you inhibit both players thereónot just the first player. This essentially just maintains the "first player advantage" trying to be fixed.
    Not quite. Player 1 would miss his turn for globals and his opponent's turn for globals so holding energy does nothing. Player 2 wouldn't be able to use globals on his turn but he could still PXG on his opponent's second turn which is the first time he'd have excess energy and be able to do it anyway. It does block Player 2 from surfing though. It gives a way for player 2 to use excess energy on his opponent's turn while blocking player 1 from being able to use excess energy.

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