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Thread: AvX, UXM, YGO & BFF Out of Print?

  1. #1

    AvX, UXM, YGO & BFF Out of Print?

    My store said that AvX, UXM, YGO and BFF are all listed as "limited" availability through their distributor, and they also said that usually means something is going out of print. Any corroboration on whether we should be getting any more reprints of these sets?

  2. #2
    I do not expect any reprint on older sets. It's the norm for CCGs to only have 2-3 sets in print at any given time. Sales peak on releases and fall in a month. Plus there isn't the factories to keep that much in print.
    I don't see this as a problem though. My store still has stock of these sets, People have spares from older sets, the secondary market exists, and a new exciting set is always just around the corner.

  3. #3
    My FLGS is saying that YGO is showing no longer available. AvX, UxM, and BFF is limited but they are still getting GFs for BFF and UxM.

  4. #4
    Id be really surprised if BFF was discontinued. They are coming out with a second set that basically pairs with BFF, if you discontinue the first set, people will look at the new set and be all 'well I cant get that one any more, whats the point in buying this one?'. Seems like a bad business decision.

  5. #5
    I feel its good business decision that each set stands on its own very well independently of previous sets. I like how a new player can buy a starter and 20 boosters of any set and have a good base to explore.

    They will pair as much as the Drax from Spiderman pairs with Age of Ultron's Guardians. And Beast from AoU pairs with uncanny xmen.

    I think the business and market model is perfect for new player, so cheap and accessible. The bigger issue is the volume for existing players. I believe we have Marvel Civil War coming at some point and I wonder how many characters in that set are going to be more variations of characters we already have. Then my purchases may be limited to drafts.

  6. #6
    Thankfully I have all those sets completed. Maybe I should hurry up and finish buying what I'm missing from the other sets soon though.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by BloodyCactus View Post
    Id be really surprised if BFF was discontinued. They are coming out with a second set that basically pairs with BFF, if you discontinue the first set, people will look at the new set and be all 'well I cant get that one any more, whats the point in buying this one?'. Seems like a bad business decision.
    It would be a msiake of WK proportions for sure.

  8. #8
    It only makes sense for them to stop printing certain sets. In magic they only print them so long then they make way for new sets. Same idea here.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    It only makes sense for them to stop printing certain sets. In magic they only print them so long then they make way for new sets. Same idea here.
    I don't see why they would apply that here. Currently, my store has gravity feeds for every set except AvX and starters all sets. For a game that encourages mixing and matching, discontinuing all sets would be counter productive.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    I don't see why they would apply that here. Currently, my store has gravity feeds for every set except AvX and starters all sets. For a game that encourages mixing and matching, discontinuing all sets would be counter productive.
    It applies here as manufacturing lines and vendor times needs to be allocated to newer sets. If they were still printing AvX we'd still be buying it but we wouldn't be seeing ASM yet. Keep in mind running sets out of print drives up the secondary market (this can be argued as good or bad for the game). It also encourages players to buy new product especially if they rotate things out.

    New product sales is what Wizkids will be judged on by higher ups not keeping old sets in print. It's also much easier to design new sets if they know something is rotated out, it limits the number of combos and checks they need to do to look for broken scenarios.

  11. #11
    I understand where you are coming from, but SJgames has no problem maintaining all their lines of Munchkin going at once. The secondary market, wizkids sees no profits unless they have a department selling stuff on these markets. So if that is not the case, it would be in their best interest to keep printing all of their sets. Now if stores are showing no signs of ordering a particular set (like Uncanny) than yea, halt production for now on that set.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    I understand where you are coming from, but SJgames has no problem maintaining all their lines of Munchkin going at once. The secondary market, wizkids sees no profits unless they have a department selling stuff on these markets. So if that is not the case, it would be in their best interest to keep printing all of their sets. Now if stores are showing no signs of ordering a particular set (like Uncanny) than yea, halt production for now on that set.
    But Munchkin isn't a randomized game right. It doesn't drive people to buy packs blind like dice masters does. This is a key difference between the Munchkin business plan and that of a collectible game.

    Look at the FFG Living Card Games. They keep old product in print because it's essential. In these games the randomness factor is taken out, the game is no longer collectible and is competitive. Everyone can get a full set of everything to play with without digging through packs.

    The after market argument has been had many times. Wizkids doesn't profit off this directly, but if aftermarket prices drive players to purchase more feeds (so they can avoid those prices), then it only helps WizKids with sales. Some people will be excited by these prices and buy packs to sell their extra rares, some people will dislike that the card set ends up being limited by the higher after market prices on specific rares.

    I've never seen a collectible game like Dice masters not put older sets out of print eventually. Especially with 3 sets beyond whats in the topic line here. In the same light most expandable games (like Munchkin and FFG LCG's) benefit from having their full line up available all the time.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by KennedyHawk View Post
    But Munchkin isn't a randomized game right. It doesn't drive people to buy packs blind like dice masters does. This is a key difference between the Munchkin business plan and that of a collectible game.

    Look at the FFG Living Card Games. They keep old product in print because it's essential. In these games the randomness factor is taken out, the game is no longer collectible and is competitive. Everyone can get a full set of everything to play with without digging through packs.

    The after market argument has been had many times. Wizkids doesn't profit off this directly, but if aftermarket prices drive players to purchase more feeds (so they can avoid those prices), then it only helps WizKids with sales. Some people will be excited by these prices and buy packs to sell their extra rares, some people will dislike that the card set ends up being limited by the higher after market prices on specific rares.

    I've never seen a collectible game like Dice masters not put older sets out of print eventually. Especially with 3 sets beyond whats in the topic line here. In the same light most expandable games (like Munchkin and FFG LCG's) benefit from having their full line up available all the time.
    Munchkin actually has many expansions and boosters. This is the first time I have actually heard of the aftermarket argument, and honestly everyone I know, myself included, go the opposite route. After so many boosters, I buy singles and don't bother anymore with that set (not a collector myself).

    What wizkids will actually do? We shall see in time, but honestly, I have heard YGO and AvX being rumored to be discontinued for the past year and with the exception of AvX being difficult to find, YGO is going strong.

  14. #14
    I knew that Avx was out, I heard that YGO was out. UXM and BFF i am surprised about.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    Munchkin actually has many expansions and boosters. This is the first time I have actually heard of the aftermarket argument, and honestly everyone I know, myself included, go the opposite route. After so many boosters, I buy singles and don't bother anymore with that set (not a collector myself).

    What wizkids will actually do? We shall see in time, but honestly, I have heard YGO and AvX being rumored to be discontinued for the past year and with the exception of AvX being difficult to find, YGO is going strong.

    It's not financially posible to keep all sets in print. First, because once they are no longer new, a lot of sets lose their appeal. The newest product is always the most sought after. Second,you can only devote so much space to a product that's no longer current. But from the maker and vendor perspective. You can't expect all vendors to have all products on the floor for every existing set.

    The most important fact is that they can't simultaneously print all cards from all sets without raising their costs ( Having several print runs of different sets will cost you a lot) And doing so might reduce interest in the newest product.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaseshifter View Post
    It's not financially posible to keep all sets in print. First, because once they are no longer new, a lot of sets lose their appeal. The newest product is always the most sought after. Second,you can only devote so much space to a product that's no longer current. But from the maker and vendor perspective. You can't expect all vendors to have all products on the floor for every existing set.

    The most important fact is that they can't simultaneously print all cards from all sets without raising their costs ( Having several print runs of different sets will cost you a lot) And doing so might reduce interest in the newest product.
    And yet Steve Jackson Games keeps doing it with new stuff planned. Granted there have been 2 sets that went out of print, but were requested by enough people to put them back in print. This is a different company, so I don't know how they will approach it, but it is possible to keep all sets in print.

  17. #17
    Munchkin is a different Beast entirely though. If would likely to be possible to keep older sets that are non-collectible in print, like TMNT or Quarriors for example. But the collectible and tradable nature of this game encourages a market design that is cyclical. The innate financial design of opening packs for a gamble is entirely predicated on the concept that new is hot. If product is out for long enough, the secondary market ends up being cheaper than the single pack model and sales would dry up. Just look at UXM, many store have too much of the stuff and are running UXM drafts to this date because the demand has dwindled. Now imagine 8 sets from now when the stores are looking back at their JLA stock and wondering if they are going to have to do the same with that set.

    Cyclical, demand intrinsic relationship, and it is simply sound business practice to only sell what is in demand.

  18. #18
    True indeed. Time shall tell how they move forward. As much as I dislike the OPness of the Hulks in AvX (only because of Magic Missile and Slifer), the set has many great synergistic cards that would be unfortunate for newer players to miss out on.

  19. #19
    Out of print sets are only ok, if implemented with a set rotation policy. Whilst all sets are valid there should be at least some availability of each. Now it would make sense for wizkids to quietly stop churning out sets they're about to retire as leaving retailers with a large amount of stock that most customers wouldn't see the need to get probably wouldn't go down well!

    Maybe this is a precursor to the rumoured set rotation policy but maybe it's just a back log in production given the large number of sets wizkids are releasing.

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