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Thread: Time called/Ties

  1. #1

    Time called/Ties

    I need people to clarify this for me. I have been brushing up on rules because our PDC is this Saturday, and I found a rule I've missed before.
    So if time is called, each player gets 3 turns, starting with the player who went first, correct?

    Then, if no one is at zero life at the end of those turns, it's a tie? We've been marking whoever had the most health remaining as the winner.

  2. #2
    In an official tournament its considered a tie if time runs out along with final turns and neither is at 0. At locals we consider the one with the most life the winner.

    As for turns we just start with whose currently active.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by chalos13 View Post
    I need people to clarify this for me. I have been brushing up on rules because our PDC is this Saturday, and I found a rule I've missed before.
    So if time is called, each player gets 3 turns, starting with the player who went first, correct?

    Then, if no one is at zero life at the end of those turns, it's a tie? We've been marking whoever had the most health remaining as the winner.
    The rule you are referencing, is for the single elimination rounds, where one player wins one game, the other player wins the second and no time is left for game 3.

    Then, you start a new game with 3 rounds each, and whom ever has the most life wins at the end of the second players third turn.

  4. #4
    So did the Pro Dice Circuit get it wrong, or are they misunderstanding the rules like I was
    "Swiss rounds should be run as best-of-one, thirty minute rounds with 0-1-2-3 turns occurring when time is called. If the game is incomplete after turn three, the game is considered a tie."
    From their info regarding how to run events

  5. #5
    That is how swiss rounds are run, before the cut to top 4 or 8. After that is single elimination, best of three, where the three round rule applies.

  6. #6
    I am very confused. I feel like your first post said no, my original post was wrong, and your last post said yes, it's right. I'm lost @Shadowmeld

  7. #7
    I actually think "most life" is a bad system to begin with. Its not indicative of who is actually winning. I'm just not sure if there is a more objective way to measure it.

  8. #8
    I agree with @Scum . Ok, at a normal tournament time is called, players proceed to 3 turns, at the end of three turns player one has 4 life and player two has 10, according to the rules, who is the winner.

    Now same question, but at the PDC.
    I understand what to do after the cut to top four, I'm just needing to know about normal, 30 minute single game rounds.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by chalos13 View Post
    I am very confused. I feel like your first post said no, my original post was wrong, and your last post said yes, it's right. I'm lost @Shadowmeld
    Actually, I mistook your first example because you said that each player gets 3 turns, but actually, both players get 3 rounds between them. Turn zero is the active players turn at time, turn one and three are the second player's. Then at the end of turn 3, the player with the most life wins.

    The reason for this is to keep the rounds timely, and ensure that the players know they are no longer playing for 0 life, but most life at x time.

    This shouldn't be a suprise, and it should be something players are aware of. Time shouldn't be a suprise, and the fact your game is moving slow should make life totals a consideration as you are paying attention to time.

    Remember, competitive games aren't about just winning eventually, but about winning within competitive constraints.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Actually, I mistook your first example because you said that each player gets 3 turns, but actually, both players get 3 rounds between them. Turn zero is the active players turn at time, turn one and three are the second player's. Then at the end of turn 3, the player with the most life wins.

    The reason for this is to keep the rounds timely, and ensure that the players know they are no longer playing for 0 life, but most life at x time.
    Ok this is what I've been doing, except we have been going an extra turn apparently.
    Also, what you're saying contradicts what the Pro Dice Circuit instructions say.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    I actually think "most life" is a bad system to begin with. Its not indicative of who is actually winning. I'm just not sure if there is a more objective way to measure it.
    It's either that or it's a tie like in MTG.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by chalos13 View Post
    Ok this is what I've been doing, except we have been going an extra turn apparently.
    Also, what you're saying contradicts what the Pro Dice Circuit instructions say.
    And... You are right. I was mistaken, in Swiss you can have ties because they can be taken into account. Again, life total doesn't matter, and you get a half credit in scoring for not losing.

  13. #13
    When a Swiss match is being played (i.e. best-of-one, 30 minute match), when time is called, if the game is incomplete, a 0-1-2-3 turn extension will be played (the acting player at the point when time is called will be turn "0"). At the end of turn 3, the player with the most life is the winner. If the total life score is tied (also greater than zero) after turn three, the game is considered a tie for scoring purposes in the WizKids Event System, which you should be using to record your PDC Event.

    The top 4 players will play in Single Elimination matches (best-of-three, 50 minute match). If both players have won the same number of games (i.e. 1 or none apiece) and the game is incomplete when time is called on the 1st or 3rd game a 0-1-2-3-4-5 turn extension will be played (the acting player at the moment when time is called will be turn "0"). At the end of turn 5, the player with the most life is the winner. If the total life score is tied after turn five then the players begin a new game (reset the life point totals to 20) with each player having three turns. If the game is incomplete after those turns, the player with the most life wins. If the players have the same amount of life points, then the game continues and the next player to damage his or her opponent wins the match.

    If, after the completion of game two (with the applicable extension outlined above) both players are tied (at 1 win apiece), an additional extension will be played as follows (an abbreviated procedure of the one cited above):
    (1) Each player's life total is reset to 20.
    (2) A three turn extension will be played.
    (3) The player that lost the 2nd game will go first.
    (4) If the game is incomplete after those turns, the player with the greater life total at the end of turn three is the winner.
    (5) If the players have the same amount of life points, then the game continues and the next player to damage his or her opponent wins the match.


    Please note that the PDC Official Event Guidelines adhere to official WizKids Tournament Rules with the following clarifications cited above. The main difference is to preclude any ties in a Single Elimination match (the WizKids Tournament Rules make an allowance for a tie if both players have won the same number of games and any extra turns or time extensions in their best of 3 series still result in the life total score being tied).


    You can take this as Official.

    Let me know if you have any further questions.


    PDC Admin Team
    Last edited by archivist; 01-01-2016 at 02:14 AM.

  14. #14
    @archivist
    Thank you very much, that's exactly what I needed

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by archivist View Post
    When a Swiss match is being played (i.e. best-of-one, 30 minute match), when time is called, if the game is incomplete, a 0-1-2-3 turn extension will be played (the acting player at the point when time is called will be turn "0"). At the end of turn 3, the player with the most life is the winner. If the total life score is tied (also greater than zero) after turn three, the game is considered a tie for scoring purposes in the WizKids Event System, which you should be using to record your PDC Event.

    The top 4 players will play in Single Elimination matches (best-of-three, 50 minute match). If both players have won the same number of games (i.e. 1 or none apiece) and the game is incomplete when time is called on the 1st or 3rd game a 0-1-2-3-4-5 turn extension will be played (the acting player at the moment when time is called will be turn "0"). At the end of turn 5, the player with the most life is the winner. If the total life score is tied after turn five then the players begin a new game (reset the life point totals to 20) with each player having three turns. If the game is incomplete after those turns, the player with the most life wins. If the players have the same amount of life points, then the game continues and the next player to damage his or her opponent wins the match.

    If, after the completion of game two (with the applicable extension outlined above) both players are tied (at 1 win apiece), an additional extension will be played as follows (an abbreviated procedure of the one cited above):
    (1) Each player's life total is reset to 20.
    (2) A three turn extension will be played.
    (3) The player that lost the 2nd game will go first.
    (4) If the game is incomplete after those turns, the player with the greater life total at the end of turn three is the winner.
    (5) If the players have the same amount of life points, then the game continues and the next player to damage his or her opponent wins the match.


    Please note that the PDC Official Event Guidelines adhere to official WizKids Tournament Rules with the following clarifications cited above. The main difference is to preclude any ties in a Single Elimination match (the WizKids Tournament Rules make an allowance for a tie if both players have won the same number of games and any extra turns or time extensions in their best of 3 series still result in the life total score being tied).


    You can take this as Official.

    Let me know if you have any further questions.


    PDC Admin Team
    Isn't the top part (Swiss pairings) of ^ this different from what PDC's page says? http://prodicecircuit.com/official-event-guidelines/
    "Swiss rounds should be run as best-of-one, thirty minute rounds with 0-1-2-3 turns occurring when time is called. If the game is incomplete after turn three, the game is considered a tie."
    That doesn't mention comparing life totals; it just goes straight to tie.

  16. #16
    The PDC Guidelines page will be updated with what I posted here.

  17. #17

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by SafeHaven View Post
    When will that happen? Events should be run that (as posted above) way starting when?

    Doesn't that mean that some of the PDC events will be run differently from others in the same season? (Ignoring the different judges ruling differently already causing that.)

    The Rules Guidelines should be updated shortly (we're getting back from holiday, so the reason for the time lag).

    Based on the results data there were very few ties, so there should not be much concern about events being run differently from this point onward having an affect on the standings.

  19. #19
    The PDC Rules Guidelines are now updated.

  20. #20
    Would it be OK for a store to run the event allowing for ties if neither player has lost after going to turns, in the Swiss rounds (only)?

    I just feel like I would have chosen to run the event earlier if I'd known this rule change was going to take effect midway through the Regionals (or any) round, as ties do happen often enough that this could change the course of an event in a non-positive way.

  21. #21
    if it's PDC then I would suggest following the guidelines, Ties only occur at tied life totals after turns, highest life total wins.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by SlapsterMcFlash View Post
    Would it be OK for a store to run the event allowing for ties if neither player has lost after going to turns, in the Swiss rounds (only)?

    I just feel like I would have chosen to run the event earlier if I'd known this rule change was going to take effect midway through the Regionals (or any) round, as ties do happen often enough that this could change the course of an event in a non-positive way.
    As there were many events run using ties prior to this change. I would imagine that any house rule would stand for this round of events. However, it may be in your best interest to contact the PDC through an official channel prior to doing that.

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