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Thread: Set Rotation

  1. #1

    Set Rotation

    As a new player I've been doing a lot of research into the best cards/teams ect and it's clear that certain cards from AVX and YGO stand out. I was planning on buying a Tsarina and a YGO Gravity feed to try and get Blue Eyes and Jinzo etc but I've just watched Matt Heroics video on YouTube and he talks about set rotation. I hadn't considered this as an option having never competivly played magic. I don't want to invest into cards that I can't use in competitive play. Am I right to think that set rotation means you simply won't be able to use these cards anymore in tournaments etc or is there more to it?
    I guess the answer is focus on the newer sets and ignore these great cards, which is a shame cause these cards look really fun to play with so should I bother getting these older cards?
    This news has really thrown me, I feel a bit like I've wasted my time doing research on cards that will soon be redundant and it's made me question whether I want to get into this game any further?
    I was wondering your thoughts on the likelyhood of this happening and the time frame? It would also be interesting to here from Magic players that have gone through this process, their thoughts and how it effected their playing experience?

    Thx.

  2. #2
    I am also a new Dice Masters player, but I've been playing Magic competitively for four years.
    The most played sanctioned format in Magic is Standard, which is a rotating format. The details are a bit intricate, but the general idea is to rotate sets periodically, so you can acquire new players and change the format constantly thanks to releases of new sets. However for competitive play this means, that you have to get the good cards, but you can use them only until they rotate out of the format, e.g. for a year and a half.
    I personally think Dice Masters is still in its infancy (compared to Magic) and it doesn't require a rotating format yet. Once unlimited (constructed) gets solved and/or game designers feel the need to avoid power creep, then it would make sense. I wish WizKids would slow down the set releases and thus allow more players to adopt the game and get invested in it.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Drfunsox View Post
    I was wondering your thoughts on the likelyhood of this happening and the time frame? It would also be interesting to here from Magic players that have gone through this process, their thoughts and how it effected their playing experience?
    First, a Set Rotation is going to happen. Wizkids has already made remarks to this effect. The timeframe and what sets is still questionable for now. Currently, the rumor is that Wizkids will make an announcement after Worlds this year in June.

    I can sympathize with the position of being a new player getting into the game and trying to get the most bang for your buck at this point. Just remember that there is an active "Golden Age" / Legacy scene for Wizkids other popular game. And just because these cards become 'sanctioned event' ineligible, does not mean you cannot play them casually with your friends.

    I know a lot of people looking forward to the retirement of Avengers vs. X-Men and the Uncanny X-Men sets. Which will be the only sets close to 2 years old. Depending on when the rotation will start, we might see up to 3 sets retired. Obviously a January 2017 start for rotations would mean that Yu-Gi-Oh!: Series 1 could also be included in the rotation.

  4. #4
    This is a shame to me. At the point where 1/2 my collection becomes unusable, the fun/cost ratio will probably lean to me not being as interested in the game.

    It would seem to me that including similar but slightly different game text from early set power cards on new release characters would make the need to discontinue sets pointless.

    For frame of reference and fairness; I don't play Magic

  5. #5
    I think set rotation would be great for the game, with the caveat that they still support an unlimited format. I think having both would be the healthiest possibility for the game.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    I think set rotation would be great for the game, with the caveat that they still support an unlimited format. I think having both would be the healthiest possibility for the game.
    I'd love to see this.

    Have two monthly promo kits (or alternate months).

    One kit for unlimited formats (which includes alt arts and alt characters from older sets like AvX and UXM)
    The other kit can be alt arts and cards from the latest 1-2 sets.

  7. #7
    First off, you don't need Tsarina nor Blue Eyes too be competitive. There are plenty of great cards in all the sets. YGO has many other great cards in their line up. I really hope that they don't make a ban list for competitions. I like the ability to choose from all the cards I keep. Sure I have AvX, but I find myself grabbing from D&D more often.

  8. #8
    The reason I think rotation would be healthy isn't necessarily the price now. It's the price 3 years from now. I don't hate paying 60 for a Tsarina, but I'd hate paying 100 for a Tsarina. That's just me though. However, like I said, I'd like an unlimited format too. I think having multiple formats for different kinds of players would help draw in more players to the competitive scene. That isn't to say I want something like Little Cup or Odds and Evens, I don't feel like those limitations are appropriate for competitive play. However, I'd like to see unlimited constructed, an equivalent to golden age/standard, and draft being actively promoted.

  9. #9
    I'm new to the game, been playing for a month now... I'm married and have a 4 month old son, so I don't have the $$ to blow on Tsarina and Gobby that some people might. It just forces me to try to find defense for these cards... While I'd love to eventually get my hands on them, I realize these cards will most likely be ones I'll never own. Buying 3 starter kits for $60 is a lot different than buying a single card for $60.

  10. #10
    As others have said, there will very likely be an eventual set rotation, however there will likely be an all encompassing format that still exists even after rotation, much like Magic the Gathering has Legacy and Modern formats. I also wouldn't be surprised if there continues to be tournament events where everything is legal, if not from WizKids themselves, perhaps from the Pro Dice Circuit.

    And it's likely no secret, but I'm also very much in favor of set rotation. I think it helps make the game more welcoming to new players if they don't have this mistaken impression that they need cards from the very first set released in order to be competitive...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Flexei View Post
    I also wouldn't be surprised if there continues to be tournament events where everything is legal, if not from WizKids themselves, perhaps from the Pro Dice Circuit.

    We were just tossing around some ideas along this thought a few weeks ago. Stay tuned.....

  12. #12
    Thanks for your comments guys, it's appreciated and has cleared a few things up for me.
    It's great to here your views on this.

    I think their is a preconception, rightly or wrongly with newer players, that to be competitive you need AVX cards. I guess this is because their is so much more info about them, floating about the web.
    If anyone knows of any great articles that focus on newer competitive set builds and strategies please drop me a link, they will be gratefully received.
    Thanks again.

  13. #13
    Out of curiosity, where do people keep hearing that wizkids is hinting at set rotation? I have heard the rumors for a while but only on forums.

  14. #14
    WK rotates HeroClix, so its not a surprise that it'll happen with Dice Masters. HeroClix sets last 3 years as Modern Age before transitioning to Golden Age. I expect Dice Masters sets will has a similar life span, so AVX might have 1-2 years left. It'll get an extra year because WK didn't prepare for out hot the product became and having lack of product. AXV and UXM will go to Golden first and then, the following year it'll be JL, AOU, and YGO, since that series is dead.

    The big question is how they'll do D&D's transition. It only gets 1 set a year and there isn't much coming out to replace what comes out of date.

    As Dice Masters evolves and more sets go to Golden there will be Anything Goes style tournaments when all cards are usable, so buying Tsarina or other expensive card isn't a bad investment. She could turn into a Black Lotus and be worth a s*** load of money.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by vonVile View Post
    WK rotates HeroClix, so its not a surprise that it'll happen with Dice Masters. HeroClix sets last 3 years as Modern Age before transitioning to Golden Age. I expect Dice Masters sets will has a similar life span, so AVX might have 1-2 years left. It'll get an extra year because WK didn't prepare for out hot the product became and having lack of product. AXV and UXM will go to Golden first and then, the following year it'll be JL, AOU, and YGO, since that series is dead.

    The big question is how they'll do D&D's transition. It only gets 1 set a year and there isn't much coming out to replace what comes out of date.

    As Dice Masters evolves and more sets go to Golden there will be Anything Goes style tournaments when all cards are usable, so buying Tsarina or other expensive card isn't a bad investment. She could turn into a Black Lotus and be worth a s*** load of money.
    YGO is dead? I don't think so on that one, unless you mean the actual shows and manga have been stopped by their artists.

    I still don't think that dicemasters will see this for a long while. I understand that heroclix is going through it, but that is a different product. Companies don't always apply the same business plans to all their products. Considering that D&D has only gotten 1 set a year as of now further demonstrates why would they for this game.

  16. #16
    The reprint of AvX into foreign languages here recently made me think that a rotation is not coming soon. Who knows? I will be happy if there is a standard and legacy/all set format though when it does happen.

  17. #17
    I'm hoping that they plan to print a "Best of Marvel" set before the begin phasing out the older marvel sets. Then they can print a Best fo DC, best of DnD etc. (of course this might mean that YGO either never cycles or loses it's presence altogether). In these sets I would expect to see some new cards, but also reprints of the "core" cards that keep the game interesting. They could do this set every other year or so to help new player entry, and not force folks to scrounge of the rarest of cards or dice, but also not feel the need to reprint whole sets.

    This can also be a good way to phase out problem cards, but keep useful ones. PXG could get phased out but Mutate 666 could stay, or Gobby could get phased out while goblin lord stays.


    Just a thought.

  18. #18

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    YGO is dead? I don't think so on that one, unless you mean the actual shows and manga have been stopped by their artists.

    I still don't think that dicemasters will see this for a long while. I understand that heroclix is going through it, but that is a different product. Companies don't always apply the same business plans to all their products. Considering that D&D has only gotten 1 set a year as of now further demonstrates why would they for this game.
    I think he means in terms of getting any future expansions (Which would be a travesty, XYZ Dragon Cannon > Superheroes any day )

    Although in terms of the card game, the playerbase is still massive, but the competitive game has been dead for a while (even more so with the latest 1 deck format thanks to the horrendous pendulum sorcerer, wavering eyes and Tellarknight Ptolemaios)

    I'm still iffy on the subject of set rotation for dice masters though, on the one hand it makes perfect sense, but on the other hand, it doesn't exactly encourage them to slow down on product releases, fix quality control issues and solve ruling conundrums. I think it's going to happen though, if only so Wizkids can avoid dealing with all those problems and start selling us a new hulk once or twice a year before rotating it out.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
    I think he means in terms of getting any future expansions (Which would be a travesty, XYZ Dragon Cannon > Superheroes any day )

    Although in terms of the card game, the playerbase is still massive, but the competitive game has been dead for a while (even more so with the latest 1 deck format thanks to the horrendous pendulum sorcerer, wavering eyes and Tellarknight Ptolemaios)

    I'm still iffy on the subject of set rotation for dice masters though, on the one hand it makes perfect sense, but on the other hand, it doesn't exactly encourage them to slow down on product releases, fix quality control issues and solve ruling conundrums. I think it's going to happen though, if only so Wizkids can avoid dealing with all those problems and start selling us a new hulk once or twice a year before rotating it out.
    Oh god, no more hulks please. lol

    I really hope they give us at least one more yugioh, there are plenty of great monsters and other millennium items that can be thrown into the mix. Imagine a Sword and Shield Basic Action that switches every creatures attack and defense stat on the field. Such fun that would bring alone.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    Oh god, no more hulks please. lol
    Actually, there are only 11 Hulk Cards in the whole game. There are 12 Captain America, Iron Man, and Wolverine cards. Spider-man is the character with the most number of cards at 13.

  22. #22

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    YGO is dead? I don't think so on that one, unless you mean the actual shows and manga have been stopped by their artists.

    I still don't think that dicemasters will see this for a long while. I understand that heroclix is going through it, but that is a different product. Companies don't always apply the same business plans to all their products. Considering that D&D has only gotten 1 set a year as of now further demonstrates why would they for this game.
    YGO sets in Dice Masters is dead, not the franchise.

  24. #24
    I'm not a fan of super heroes or comics, but yugioh is my second favorite universe after D&D. The power level of most of the yugioh cards is a bit lacking for their cost though, in my opinion, with some yugioh cards being identical in cost and effect, just with worse dice stats. maybe there will be another yugioh set that will provide a good boost to some of the other yugioh cards.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by vonVile View Post
    YGO sets in Dice Masters is dead, not the franchise.
    I hope not, there are many more great cards they could make.

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