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Thread: Question about how your local events are scored

  1. #1

    Question about how your local events are scored

    Situational example: You and I are playing a WES game at our FLGS. Swiss single match and It goes to turns, and ends after time and turns with the life totals= me:14, you:15.

    What is the outcome of that game? How is it recorded in your local events?

  2. #2
    I am very happy to be a judge, so that I was able to make games end in ties where neither person had 0 life at the end, after going 0-1-2-3-4-5 turns at time.

    There are plenty of legitimate strategies that involve losing life before winning, Silver Surfer global case in point, and it's completely ludicrous to assume you were going to win because they had 15 life and you had 14, or vice versa. I have been on both ends of the stick at venues that call the winner on whoever has more life points, even if one sidekick gets though, and it's just silly to me, as the game has 1 point tie scoring for a reason. It's a significant number when a win is 3 points, and is much better than a loss. It's a total insult to the players, when time and actually winning a real tournament aren't on the line, to give one person a win for being ahead on life points.

    Anyway, at the venue I judge at, the game would be scored a tie, and you'd each get 1 point in the WES. It's how things should be, and it's why the PDC has that set up, only going to turns when absolutely needed during the top 4 single elimination rounds, but allows ties for scoring purposes, including when neither person has hit 0 during Swiss rounds.

    I've just felt so dirty when a game ends and neither person has reached 0 life and one of us is given the loss. I've even asked to be given a tie, it just annoys me so much. Normally, I hate ties, etc..., but it happens, and as I said it's an insult to the "losing" player to assume they had no strategy of their own, and it screws them over.

    Totally uncool when judges give one person in that case in a standard game, as you described, the win, IMO.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by SlapsterMcFlash View Post
    I am very happy to be a judge, so that I was able to make games end in ties where neither person had 0 life at the end, after going 0-1-2-3-4-5 turns at time.

    There are plenty of legitimate strategies that involve losing life before winning, Silver Surfer global case in point, and it's completely ludicrous to assume you were going to win because they had 15 life and you had 14, or vice versa. I have been on both ends of the stick at venues that call the winner on whoever has more life points, even if one sidekick gets though, and it's just silly to me, as the game has 1 point tie scoring for a reason. It's a significant number when a win is 3 points, and is much better than a loss. It's a total insult to the players, when time and actually winning a real tournament aren't on the line, to give one person a win for being ahead on life points.

    Anyway, at the venue I judge at, the game would be scored a tie, and you'd each get 1 point in the WES. It's how things should be, and it's why the PDC has that set up, only going to turns when absolutely needed during the top 4 single elimination rounds, but allows ties for scoring purposes, including when neither person has hit 0 during Swiss rounds.

    I've just felt so dirty when a game ends and neither person has reached 0 life and one of us is given the loss. I've even asked to be given a tie, it just annoys me so much. Normally, I hate ties, etc..., but it happens, and as I said it's an insult to the "losing" player to assume they had no strategy of their own, and it screws them over.

    Totally uncool when judges give one person in that case in a standard game, as you described, the win, IMO.
    Actually, in Swiss rounds, the PDC specifically states to give the win to the player with the most life. http://prodicecircuit.com/official-event-guidelines/


    Our store typically uses the highest life total as winner on our weekday events. Weekend events are typically higher level prize/competition and uses extra games/round.

    While I agree that life total is a resource and can and should be used wisely or that sometimes control builds take some early hard hits before leveling out and taking over the game, the original tournament rules stated highest life total wins. I believe everyone just kind of grabbed onto that as an easy standard.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SafeHaven View Post
    Actually, in Swiss rounds, the PDC specifically states to give the win to the player with the most life. http://prodicecircuit.com/official-event-guidelines/


    Our store typically uses the highest life total as winner on our weekday events. Weekend events are typically higher level prize/competition and uses extra games/round.

    While I agree that life total is a resource and can and should be used wisely or that sometimes control builds take some early hard hits before leveling out and taking over the game, the original tournament rules stated highest life total wins. I believe everyone just kind of grabbed onto that as an easy standard.
    But you are talking about PDC that's not Wizkids Tournements. Or am I wrong in thinking that those are two different entities?

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeMPilz View Post
    But you are talking about PDC that's not Wizkids Tournements. Or am I wrong in thinking that those are two different entities?
    They are two different entities but apparently do both have some sort of winner if the game is over, whether with turns or not, and one player has a higher life total than another.

    It really doesn't sit right with me.

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SafeHaven View Post
    PDC is not WizKids. It is fan-made.

    However, as I bolded in Slapster's post, he mentioned the PDC scoring it as a tie, which is no longer correct. They recently (within a week or two?) changed it.
    Well that's good to know. I knew I had read it and re-read it, but wasn't going to argue, as I hadn't cached or otherwise saved any pages that said otherwise.

    Anyone from the PDC care to weigh in as to why they changed that, especially in the middle of the Regionals Round? I feel like it should at least stay the same way until the next round, for consistency's sake for all the previous winners, or not winners.

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  11. #11
    If we are playing Swiss best of 1s, person with the most life wins after 5 turns. If we are playing top seat best of 3, ties can and do happen if no one defeats the other player.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SafeHaven View Post
    They claim it wasn't a problem as there hadn't been many ties.

    Believe me, I questioned that too.
    We have results submitted from 43 PDC Events (as of 15Jan2016). Three of those Events only submitted the 1st/2nd place winners, so we do not know if there were any ties, which leaves 40 Events comprising the following data.

    Number of Swiss Rounds Played (excludes all Final 4 rounds): 160

    Number of Individual Games: 843 (excludes byes)

    Number of Games ending in a Tie: 16 (1.89%) - Note: 6 of these ties were clustered in 2 Events, meaning a majority of the PDC Events were not impacted by the occurrence of a tie game.


    We regret if the revision of the PDC Guidelines caused any disruption in the final standings at your PDC Event.



    Pro Dice Circuit Admin

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by archivist View Post
    We have results submitted from 43 PDC Events (as of 15Jan2016). Three of those Events only submitted the 1st/2nd place winners, so we do not know if there were any ties, which leaves 40 Events comprising the following data.

    Number of Swiss Rounds Played (excludes all Final 4 rounds): 160

    Number of Individual Games: 843 (excludes byes)

    Number of Games ending in a Tie: 16 (1.89%) - Note: 6 of these ties were clustered in 2 Events, meaning a majority of the PDC Events were not impacted by the occurrence of a tie game.


    We regret if the revision of the PDC Guidelines caused any disruption in the final standings at your PDC Event.



    Pro Dice Circuit Admin

    Thanks for the response. Although it's not what I would personally choose, I'm sure we'll all live and still manage to have fun.

  14. #14
    I'm with Slapster. I think allowing for ties creates a more fair game. More life may be objective, but it isn't in any way indicative of who is actually winning. We also have a method to score ties, so it seems weird to not utilize it.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    I'm with Slapster. I think allowing for ties creates a more fair game. More life may be objective, but it isn't in any way indicative of who is actually winning. We also have a method to score ties, so it seems weird to not utilize it.
    That's what gets me the most. The scoring is setup so that ties actually count for something, so it's not some terrible situation to get one. I don't understand the huge push against them from so many people, it's not like it's going to stop the event from having a winner with strength of schedule and all the other games people play...

  16. #16
    Are the Wizkids 2015 Road to Worlds tournament rules obsolete? (http://wizkidseventsystem.com/wp/wp-...ent-Rules2.pdf) According to that declaring a winner after the 5 turns is only for single elimination, swiss rounds still tie if they go to time. Although you can't get to these rules from the WKO page, and the tournament resources page is all out of whack (http://wizkidseventsystem.com/wp/tournament-resources/)...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by tenlaven View Post
    Are the Wizkids 2015 Road to Worlds tournament rules obsolete? (http://wizkidseventsystem.com/wp/wp-...ent-Rules2.pdf) According to that declaring a winner after the 5 turns is only for single elimination, swiss rounds still tie if they go to time. Although you can't get to these rules from the WKO page, and the tournament resources page is all out of whack (http://wizkidseventsystem.com/wp/tournament-resources/)...
    Agreed, ties are part of regular play. A person that has never beaten an opponent can win a tournament based on highest life wins. There is something fundamentally wrong with that. Where as with ties, that person would never come close to winning, which is how it should be IMO.

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