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Thread: Top Ten most debated interactions (or what to expect for those rulings at your WKO)

  1. #1

    Top Ten most debated interactions (or what to expect for those rulings at your WKO)

    I'm starting this thread in hopes that we can get a list started of the most debated interactions currently in the game and that prior to the WKO season we can facilitate having the local TO's weigh in for each WKO if they are on TRP so that players can know at least a little bit in advance what to expect based on region. This thread is less about debating he merits and more about compiling the issues so that TO's can express later in the thread by region what you can expect.

    Top of my head here are the first two:

    - Vulture + Parallax/Iceman TCFW: Answered on WKRF
    - Lyssa "naming" sidekicks: Answered on WKRF
    - Guy Gardner Blinding Rage status or applied effects: Answered on WKRF
    - Sacrificed characters: Do they go straight to used or OOP, then Used?

    Most recent Tourney rules I could find (specifically see ties)
    http://wizkidseventsystem.com/wp/wp-...ent-Rules2.pdf
    Last edited by Basementcuts; 01-31-2016 at 07:54 AM. Reason: Updated to show ?'s answered via the WKRF, added the Sacrificed to used question.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Basementcuts View Post
    Lyssa "naming" sidekicks
    A character's name is always listed on the top part of the character card, and it is a clearly defined aspect of the game. Sidekicks do not have character cards, nor do they have names. If the ability said to name a die, then SK would be valid choice, but as the ability is written they are not - sidekicks have no names (Hack the Planet!).

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by IgwanaRob View Post
    A character's name is always listed on the top part of the character card, and it is a clearly defined aspect of the game. Sidekicks do not have character cards, nor do they have names. If the ability said to name a die, then SK would be valid choice, but as the ability is written they are not - sidekicks have no names (Hack the Planet!).
    Just to be clear, is this an official ruling with a link, or your reading?

  4. #4
    I'm not suggesting we debate the finer points her guys. I'm suggesting we put the questionable interactions that get a lot of attention out front and then TO's from each region can weigh in on the list and how they are interpreting them for WKO's. That way people can play test based on what they can expect rather than showing up to find out that their team is bunk. Savvy?

  5. #5
    I don't think Vulture works with Parallax or Ice Man. In both cases they're energy die before they move from the field.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Basementcuts View Post
    I'm not suggesting we debate the finer points her guys. I'm suggesting we put the questionable interactions that get a lot of attention out front and then TO's from each region can weigh in on the list and how they are interpreting them for WKO's. That way people can play test based on what they can expect rather than showing up to find out that their team is bunk. Savvy?
    I don't think it would hurt the conversation if anybody had any links to official rulings on these issues from the Wizkids Even System Rulings...

  7. #7
    Neither of these two issues have been officially ruled. Both have decent arguments on both sides. I approve of this thread

    I would potentially add how does Guy Garder's bonus apply: is it an applied bonus (when he attacks - can be transferred) or a static bonus (while he is attacking, is constantly being adjusted as attackers are removed), and if it is static does it also apply when he is blocking?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    Neither of these two issues have been officially ruled. Both have decent arguments on both sides. I approve of this thread

    I would potentially add how does Guy Garder's bonus apply: is it an applied bonus (when he attacks - can be transferred) or a static bonus (while he is attacking, is constantly being adjusted as attackers are removed), and if it is static does it also apply when he is blocking?
    Added to the top

  9. #9
    Does the newer rules on the Roll and reroll step alter the old beholder global ruling?

  10. #10

  11. #11

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jwannabe View Post
    Do you think the way the newer beholder is written gives a indication of how the old one should have been ruled?
    That and Mike Elliott told me that that was his intention. I'm sad the new beholder is limited to spells though. Fortunately the cards I want to use it with are spells.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Does the newer rules on the Roll and reroll step alter the old beholder global ruling?
    Roll and reroll step rules from a specific rulebook? Ie. ASM?

  14. #14
    I can confirm that I will be judging for Regionals next month in California and here's how the following will be ruled (in order of appearance):

    Vulture + Parallax/Iceman TCFW
    Neither of these abilities will trigger Vulture. When a die in the field or reserve is on an energy face it is an energy die, regardless of what type of die it is normally. As such, when dice are rerolled or turned to energy faces while in the field, it becomes an energy die before leaving the field through game mechanics. Since Vulture does not trigger on energy dice leaving the field, he will not trigger with these abilities. Thanks to @pk2317 and @Stormyknight for clearing this up and pointing out the citation of pg. 22 of the ASM Rulebook: More About Dice.

    Lyssa "naming" sidekicks
    Sidekicks are not characters to be named. You can name sidekicks if an effect has you name a die (like Relaxing), but you cannot name "sidekick" as a character.

    Guy Gardner Blinding Rage status or applied effects
    Guy Gardner is a static effect that only counts while he is attacking (as it specifies other attacking characters, meaning Guy must be attacking to benefit).

    Does the newer rules on the Roll and reroll step alter the old beholder global ruling?
    I am unaware of any official rulings on the global and so it will be played as written. The turn after you use the global, the action die will leave your prep area for your reserve pool and remain on its action face instead of being rolled with the other dice.

    Also, what other actions give "abilities" to characters.
    Current known list includes: Lantern Ring (R), Colossus(R), and Doctor Octopus (R). Abilities will be evaluated as they arise, notably Ring of Magnetism is not on the list.

    Will Sacrifice go directly to the Used Pile or pass through the Out of Play Area?
    While a player is the active player, their sacrifice abilities will send dice to the Out of Play Area until the cleanup step like all abilities that send dice to the used pile. [The FAQ is very clear](http://wizkids.com/dicemasters/dice-masters-faq/) that abilities that send dice to the Used Pile will send dice to the Out of Play Area instead if used against the active player.
    Last edited by Necromanticer; 01-23-2016 at 09:52 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Basementcuts View Post
    Vulture + Parallax/Iceman TCFW
    Answered (in my mind at least):

    http://www.thereservepool.com/thread...ll=1#post35746

  16. #16
    In the Field or Reserve Pool, dice are what faces they are on - character, action, or energy. So it either works on all characters (including sidekicks) or it works on none. FAQ says it works on all.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    In the Field or Reserve Pool, dice are what faces they are on - character, action, or energy. So it either works on all characters (including sidekicks) or it works on none. FAQ says it works on all.
    Except that non-sidekicks are character dice regardless of their face. Sidekicks, on the other hand, are only character dice while on a character face.
    Vulture only procs when a character die leaves the field: "When any character die leaves the Field Zone, Vulture gets +4A until end of turn."

    As such, character dice on energy faces leaving the field will proc his ability while sidekick dice that are on energy faces (and thus not character dice) will not proc his ability.

  18. #18
    I read beholder as leave it in prep area until the turn afterwards (not the next, the one after that). Almost a delayed rolled. With ASM Rulebook it says to move dice you ROLLED into your reserve pool. I think it would be a good idea to bombard them with at least beholder global questions, this one has been out a while and it would be really awesome if it was just "save an action face for next turn". I'm all for that but I read it differently.
    Last edited by Stormyknight; 01-17-2016 at 10:58 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    I read beholder as leave it in prep area until the turn afterwards. With ASM Rulebook it says to move dice you ROLLED into your reserve pool. I think it would be a good idea to bombard them with at least beholder global questions, this one has been out a while and it would be really awesome if it was just "save an action face for next turn". I'm all for that but I read it differently.
    You're reading the abbreviated rules in the beginning of the rulebook, page *11 spells it out quite clearly:

    "... place all of your dice from the Prep Area to your Reserve Pool, keeping the same face up."
    Last edited by Necromanticer; 01-17-2016 at 11:10 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    You're reading the abbreviated rules in the beginning of the rulebook, page *11 spells it out quite clearly:

    "... place all of your dice from the Prep Area to your Reserve Pool, keeping the same face up."
    Then yes that does answer it, if that's the case beholder has you skip rolling it, then that step takes the dice and places it in your pool! Looks like I'm using beholder more often now, thought it was pretty useless until I saw that snippet.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    Except that non-sidekicks are character dice regardless of their face. Sidekicks, on the other hand, are only character dice while on a character face.
    Vulture only procs when a character die leaves the field: "When any character die leaves the Field Zone, Vulture gets +4A until end of turn."

    As such, character dice on energy faces leaving the field will proc his ability while sidekick dice that are on energy faces (and thus not character dice) will not proc his ability.
    Check the rulebook again. Rolled dice (Reserve Pool or Field) are whatever face is up: Character, Action, or Energy.

    Unrolled dice (Used Pile, Prep Area, or bag) are whatever faces they have: character, action, or sidekick.

    Either rerolling to energy causes the character die to leave the field (as the FAQ states happens and that ends Capturing) or it's always an energy for leaving the field. You can't distinguish between sidekicks and not.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    Check the rulebook again. Rolled dice (Reserve Pool or Field) are whatever face is up: Character, Action, or Energy.

    Unrolled dice (Used Pile, Prep Area, or bag) are whatever faces they have: character, action, or sidekick.

    Either rerolling to energy causes the character die to leave the field (as the FAQ states happens and that ends Capturing) or it's always an energy for leaving the field. You can't distinguish between sidekicks and not.
    Found it, page 22, more about dice.

  23. #23
    In my opinion i solved Lyssa Drak Naming even when some critics think its only for Constantine to resolve his Blanking the Cardtext Effect.

    scorpion0x17 wrote:
    Constantine: Hellblazer wrote:While Constantine is active, before your opponent’s Clear and Draw Step, you may name a character. If that character is fielded this turn, ignore its text until end of turn and it cannot attack this turn.

    ......

    Answer:

    In this case, the fielded level 3 Black Widow cannot attack and it has blank text.

    As a sidenote, your opponent may not name Sidekick for Constantine.
    So no naming Sidekicks but the debate over it will continue until a Topic appears on WKRF.


    Also i stand the Point either all characters leave the field via effect on their faces and not counted as characters when on energy faces, or we really have to break it in some parts.

    It is true, a character knows he is a character die even in the Usedpile.
    For me the point here is, has the die a Card that can specify if he is a character or an action die?

  24. #24
    One I've seen a lot.

    When does Millenium Puzzle count as "used".

    Does Jinzo ping for 2 when it's played or when it's moved to used via effect?

    Can Doomcaliber redirect it since he redirects actions when used/played?

    Lots of difficult interactions there.

  25. #25
    This one has been CLEARLY answered by the WKRF, Moving a continuous action die to your field is USING it. Triggering it's EFFECT occurs as a global step. Anything that says "uses" is talking about moving it to the field. Anything that talks about redirecting a targeted effect refers to when the globallike aspect is activated.

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