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Thread: Is it cheating if it's an unlearnable trait?

  1. #1

    Is it cheating if it's an unlearnable trait?

    There are very few dice for me like this, but I'll go ahead and ask. We all agree that specifically feeling for a die is cheating. However, what if it doesn't require feeling to be able to distinguish a specific die from another? Some people have noted that Grundy's die have a stickier texture so it's very distinct when you grab it. For me I find Wolverine's die from both AVX and UXM to have an extremely noticeable texture to them. That triple scratch mark is so distinct I can even feel it through a bag. Does this mean if I play with Wolverine that I'm cheating? I mean, simply by holding the bag I know where its at in the bag some percentage of the time. It's just strange to think about, and I can't think of any way to avoid it. I can't unlearn how it feels to grab a Wolverine die (even from the outside of the bag), but I can't prove that I'm not doing it on purpose - so my opponent has to take it on good faith that I'm not doing it intentionally which is problematic, because if I were doing it intentionally I don't think it could be proven. On the other hand, now that I said I can tell a Wolverine die even from outside the bag I've put myself in a weird situation because it's a known thing. I feel like I'm now in a default position of cheating. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    I understand where you are coming from. The Blue beetle die is VERY noticeable. The best thing you can is quick grabs. Shake the bag, reach in and grab a die. Repeat and Rinse until all 4 are drawn.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    There are very few dice for me like this, but I'll go ahead and ask. We all agree that specifically feeling for a die is cheating. However, what if it doesn't require feeling to be able to distinguish a specific die from another? Some people have noted that Grundy's die have a stickier texture so it's very distinct when you grab it. For me I find Wolverine's die from both AVX and UXM to have an extremely noticeable texture to them. That triple scratch mark is so distinct I can even feel it through a bag. Does this mean if I play with Wolverine that I'm cheating? I mean, simply by holding the bag I know where its at in the bag some percentage of the time. It's just strange to think about, and I can't think of any way to avoid it. I can't unlearn how it feels to grab a Wolverine die (even from the outside of the bag), but I can't prove that I'm not doing it on purpose - so my opponent has to take it on good faith that I'm not doing it intentionally which is problematic, because if I were doing it intentionally I don't think it could be proven. On the other hand, now that I said I can tell a Wolverine die even from outside the bag I've put myself in a weird situation because it's a known thing. I feel like I'm now in a default position of cheating. Thoughts?
    I was thinking along the totally same lines when I was testing my action dice in salt-water to make sure they were balanced. I was afraid of knowing which were which... obviously I'm not going to choose the dice that never roll action faces, but I don't want to knowingly choose dice that always roll action faces... fortunately, everything I measured was super balanced and I was able to stop halfway through my action dice, confident about them.

    Umm... you know, it just is what it is. Just try to grab quickly, and if you can tell you grabbed a Wolverine, oh well, you were already going to pull it out anyway. You're aware of whether or not you're purposely looking for Wolverine or not - if you're in the middle of drawing and notice you grabbed a Wolverine, like I said, it was going to come out anyway, you just noticed half a second before it did, it's not a big deal. You know if you're rooting for the die, or if you just happened to draw it and notice.

  4. #4
    It is cheating if you're feeling your dice knowing its location.. I dont mind you checking bag to see whats filling it as long as you shake it afterward.

    I can tell what character I picked when I reach in for my turn. Shake your bag and reach in grabbing the first four. No fumbling around or feeling.

  5. #5
    You could also reach in, grab some, don't bother to count how many, then either replace or draw extras to four.

    This reduces dice fondle time, and encourages the snatch and grab. Don't try to count the dice you are grabbing, might slow the game when you draw 5+, but it will also reduce your "cheating" ability.

  6. #6

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by agentj View Post
    That is a problem with a lot of players. They feel that they must draw all four dice at once so they reach in, grab dice, and count the dice by feel. Not sure of any way to fix it besides making people put in hand, grab dice, remove, and see how many you have. Then get some more or replace and start again?
    I mix my bag well then just reach in for 2 at a time. It's quick, you don't waste any time trying to count out all 4 then grab 2 more.

  8. #8
    I always draw and count and pull them out if it doesnt feel more than 4 dice(never counter correct... :O ). If its feeling like a big bunch i let them go close my bag and shake 2 times and do it again.

    I also always shake my bag 2-3times heavely when its my turn or i must draw somehting, because i know that i looked with a glimpse in my bag and know the position of the dice if i dont do. Its like using a whip on your own that marks the words "dont do it again *ouch*!!"

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by The0retico View Post
    As mentioned above, you can intentionally make it harder for you to recognize the die. I think it is a potential problem of this game for competitive play that bag is not really random. Bags is asically a public informatikon, so it would be nice to have something like a dice tower to get random four dice. You could probaly roll a die to determíne which diceto draw.
    The best way is to pick dice one at a time, taking 0 time to decide which one to pull out. if it takes you longer than a half second to decide which dice to pull out of your bag then it could be a potential call out for cheating. What we need is a system like in the episode of yu gi oh dungeon dice monsters, but that's never going to happen.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    The best way is to pick dice one at a time, taking 0 time to decide which one to pull out. if it takes you longer than a half second to decide which dice to pull out of your bag then it could be a potential call out for cheating. What we need is a system like in the episode of yu gi oh dungeon dice monsters, but that's never going to happen.
    Which inspired this very game!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    The best way is to pick dice one at a time, taking 0 time to decide which one to pull out. if it takes you longer than a half second to decide which dice to pull out of your bag then it could be a potential call out for cheating. What we need is a system like in the episode of yu gi oh dungeon dice monsters, but that's never going to happen.
    We will never, ever speak of that episode.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
    We will never, ever speak of that episode.
    That's one of my favorite episodes.

    Dice Roll!
    Dimension the Dice!

  14. #14

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by VastSpartan View Post
    That's one of my favorite episodes.

    Dice Roll!
    Dimension the Dice!
    That arc was highly amusing and for all the crap that anime has gotten...we all know if we could play dice masters in those arenas we would be lining up around the block to do so.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    Get your anime out of my dice game!
    Next marvel set after civil war:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just kidding

  17. #17

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by VastSpartan View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That picture just goes so well with your avatar.

  19. #19
    I guess it would be possible to make something like this. It would have to tumble like a bingo spinner, but drop out dice like the powerball picker. Someone smart get on it!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormyknight View Post
    I guess it would be possible to make something like this. It would have to tumble like a bingo spinner, but drop out dice like the powerball picker. Someone smart get on it!
    Still trying to deal with the Holographic Interface...give me time, this isn't Rocket Surgery!

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    Get your anime out of my dice game!
    Maybe our dice game is in my anime!

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
    Great...if I remember this...my entire PDC I will be doing this. Sorry Shadowmeld.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by bahamut7 View Post
    Great...if I remember this...my entire PDC I will be doing this. Sorry Shadowmeld.
    tuturu!

  24. #24

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowmeld View Post
    Not a single TuTuRu was heard this day.
    I forgot. I ha-ve brou-ght Dis-honor. For give me.

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