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Thread: Colossus - Piotr Rasputin

  1. #1

    Colossus - Piotr Rasputin

    Should be an easy one how does this character work?

    While Colossus is active, at the end of your turn, each of your characters of level 2 or higher deals 2 damage to your opponent (not 2 damage per Colossus die).
    While Colossus is active at the end of my turn each of my characters of level 2 or higher deals 2 damage to your opponent?

    • If I have 3 level 2 Ant-mans does each Ant-man die deal 2 damage to my opponent for a total of 6, or does it count unique characters?
    • Is it three separate instances of 2 or can Human Paladin reduce it all to 1?
    • It says not 2 per Colossus die, does that mean it wouldn't stack and become 4 per character, or does that mean 2 Colossus dice wouldn't deal damage twice but once as 2 total?


    Hopefully my questions make sense

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by KennedyHawk View Post
    If I have 3 level 2 Ant-mans does each Ant-man die deal 2 damage to my opponent for a total of 6, or does it count unique characters?
    Yes, 6 damage. Character cards don't have levels, so it's for each die.

    Quote Originally Posted by KennedyHawk View Post
    Is it three separate instances of 2 or can Human Paladin reduce it all to 1?
    Separate instances, we assume, because of the Lantern Ring ruling. Of note, the source of the damage is each different character, not Colossus.

    Quote Originally Posted by KennedyHawk View Post
    It says not 2 per Colossus die, does that mean it wouldn't stack and become 4 per character, or does that mean 2 Colossus dice wouldn't deal damage twice but once as 2 total?
    "Active" means this ability is either ON or OFF. Having two Colossi fielded, doesn't make the ability any MORE on that just one.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by KennedyHawk View Post
    Should be an easy one how does this character work?



    While Colossus is active at the end of my turn each of my characters of level 2 or higher deals 2 damage to your opponent?

    • If I have 3 level 2 Ant-mans does each Ant-man die deal 2 damage to my opponent for a total of 6, or does it count unique characters?
    • Is it three separate instances of 2 or can Human Paladin reduce it all to 1?
    • It says not 2 per Colossus die, does that mean it wouldn't stack and become 4 per character, or does that mean 2 Colossus dice wouldn't deal damage twice but once as 2 total?


    Hopefully my questions make sense
    In order:

    • Yes, all 3 Ant-Men will do 2 damage each to your opponent. This ability does not count active characters, it is an ability given to individual character dice that are above level 1.
    • It is 3 separate instances of damage meaning that your opponent must activate the Human Paladin global on a per-die basis.
    • This is because it is a "while active" ability. Fielding another Colossus won't double the damage as he was already active. Each Colossus die that is level 2+ will still deal an individual 2 damage.


    This ability works very similarly to Lantern Ring - Limited Only By Imagination if that helps you understand its interactions better. It gives level 2+ characters you control an ability that deals 2 damage to your opponent at the end of your turn. This ability will be shut off by abilities like Loki - Loki Laufeyson and Magneto - Magnetic Monster.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    In order:

    • Yes, all 3 Ant-Men will do 2 damage each to your opponent. This ability does not count active characters, it is an ability given to individual character dice that are above level 1.
    • It is 3 separate instances of damage meaning that your opponent must activate the Human Paladin global on a per-die basis.
    • This is because it is a "while active" ability. Fielding another Colossus won't double the damage as he was already active. Each Colossus die that is level 2+ will still deal an individual 2 damage.


    This ability works very similarly to Lantern Ring - Limited Only By Imagination if that helps you understand its interactions better. It gives level 2+ characters you control an ability that deals 2 damage to your opponent at the end of your turn. This ability will be shut off by abilities like Loki - Loki Laufeyson and Magneto - Magnetic Monster.
    Just the answer I needed wanted to verify how I ruled it the other day

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    This ability works very similarly to Lantern Ring - Limited Only By Imagination if that helps you understand its interactions better. It gives level 2+ characters you control an ability that deals 2 damage to your opponent at the end of your turn. This ability will be shut off by abilities like Loki - Loki Laufeyson and Magneto - Magnetic Monster.
    To be fair, we don't know any of this for sure. Unless a ruling was made that I hadn't seen yet.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    To be fair, we don't know any of this for sure. Unless a ruling was made that I hadn't seen yet.
    No, that would be being unfair.

    When two abilities are worded the same way, they are played the same way until ruled otherwise. Colossus and Lantern Ring both state that characters fitting a specific criteria deal X damage to the opponent. We have no ruling separating the two effects, so they are the same and will interact with other effects in the same manner. This includes the fact that effect negation will cancel the given effect and prevent the damage from being dealt in the first place.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    To be fair, we don't know any of this for sure. Unless a ruling was made that I hadn't seen yet.
    This is an unresolved situation. The ruling pertaining this situation, specific to Magneto - Magnetic Monster is (underline bold for emphasis):

    "General Rulings – 9/30/2015 (Action Dice): How does ignoring text/abilities work when action dice add abilities to characters and their dice? Treat additional abilities from action dice as abilities on those characters. Those abilities can be ignored, prevented, and modified as if they were character abilities. If an effect would give a character die +2A and Overcrush, but that character die’s abilities are being ignored, it couldn’t use Overcrush but would still get +2A. The attack bonus isn’t an ability."

    Since the "source" of the damage is your active level 2+ character dice, it can be assumed the Lantern Ring ruling is applicable. However, the effect was initiated by another character die (Colossus), vice an Action Die, and one can argue that Magneto does not prevent such damage from characters with a Purchase Cost of 3 or less.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    No, that would be being unfair.

    When two abilities are worded the same way, they are played the same way until ruled otherwise. Colossus and Lantern Ring both state that characters fitting a specific criteria deal X damage to the opponent. We have no ruling separating the two effects, so they are the same and will interact with other effects in the same manner. This includes the fact that effect negation will cancel the given effect and prevent the damage from being dealt in the first place.
    They are worded very similarly, though not the same. As @archivist alludes, one can argue that there is a distinct enough difference to the contrary. Colossus is a case where I err on the side of local scene/TO judgment and not make hard and fast declarations until we get an actual ruling.

  9. #9
    I believe the misunderstanding here is that that ruling is stating that abilities given by action dice are character abilities if given to characters. Whether abilities given by characters to characters are character abilities has never been a question, and thus weren't referenced in this ruling because they weren't in question. The argument you are making is that Colossus doesn't give the ability to do damage to characters, which is explicitly expressed in his ability. These characters do damage. That damage comes from a character ability, and the ability source is the characters Colossus gives the ability to, just as the Ring gives the ability to damage your opponent to characters. The ruling above doesn't bring into question whether the ring gives a character an ability, it questions whether that ability is a character ability or an action ability, and thus can be cancelled by Magneto.

    In other words, while the ruling made about Magneto and Ring's interaction tangentially relates to granting abilities, it does so by simply confirming that when damage comes from a character, that character becomes the source, and thus, the ability is considered their ability.

  10. #10
    The hang up I have is with where the trigger lies. For Latnern Ring, each individual character is the trigger, when they attack. For Colossus, he himself is the trigger, being active when the turn ends. Colossus triggers the ability, and then each character who is eligible deals damage.

    What would we say for something like Archnemesis!, used on a 3-cost-or-less character, with Zombie Mags in play? Is the character being granted an ability, which takes effect instantly, or are they simply dealing damage triggered by an external factor?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    The hang up I have is with where the trigger lies. For Latnern Ring, each individual character is the trigger, when they attack. For Colossus, he himself is the trigger, being active when the turn ends. Colossus triggers the ability, and then each character who is eligible deals damage.

    What would we say for something like Archnemesis!, used on a 3-cost-or-less character, with Zombie Mags in play? Is the character being granted an ability, which takes effect instantly, or are they simply dealing damage triggered by an external factor?
    This is the crux of the argument, as @alleyviper states: Does Magneto blank Colossus' card? By definition of Mag's ability, he does not.

    I would agree with you @Shadowmeld had not the General Ruling specifically cited treating additional abilities from action dice, which is why this situation is unresolved in my mind.

  12. #12
    That is a truly solid question about Archnemesis! I will say that there is also the possibility that the damage caused by Archnemesis! is considered to be Combat Damage, though that would take a specific ruling, as we have have a current definition of combat damage that rules this out. Archnemesis! doesn't appear to grant an ability that triggers, it seems to cause two characters to do damage immediately, similar to Power Bolt.

    Your point is well made about the Colossus trigger versus Ring trigger, and there is definitely some opacity around this "granting abilities" effect.

    Along those same lines, does the Relentless global grant the ability "can't block", does Fighting give characters "when KOed, Opponent must KO one of their dice", Does Ring of Magnetism, Vibranium Shield or Gear grant abilities?

    There is just so much that this Lantern Ring ruling calls into question, there needs to be a more verbose communication from WK about this subject.

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