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Thread: Continuous Action Dice and Red Dragon SR/Doomcaliber Skeletal Warrior

  1. #1

    Continuous Action Dice and Red Dragon SR/Doomcaliber Skeletal Warrior

    At what point do Continuous Action Dice get "used"? For instance, does Millenium Puzzle get "used" when its played on the field? Or when it sends a character to the used pile?

    So if Red Dragon is on the field, if I draw a Millenium Puzzle and play it on the field, are there now two Millenium Puzzles on the field?

    Or, if I have Millenium Puzzle on the field, then draw and field my Red Dragon, can I use send two characters to used?

    Here's a separate question regarding Lantern Ring - Limited by Imagination. Does Doomcaliber Skeletal Warrior stop the damage from occurring (thus getting knocked out) for one turn, or does it prevent the action die from being fielded?

    Also, if I have Red Dragon and my opponent has Doomcaliber, if I play Millenium puzzle does it go onto the field, or is Doomcaliber knocked out and I lose my action die?

    Red Dragon:
    While active, once per turn when you use an action die effect, you may use a second copy of its effect.

    Doomcaliber Knight:
    When an opponent uses an action die, you must cancel the effect and knock out this monster.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight4612 View Post
    At what point do Continuous Action Dice get "used"? For instance, does Millenium Puzzle get "used" when its played on the field? Or when it sends a character to the used pile?

    So if Red Dragon is on the field, if I draw a Millenium Puzzle and play it on the field, are there now two Millenium Puzzles on the field?

    Or, if I have Millenium Puzzle on the field, then draw and field my Red Dragon, can I use send two characters to used?

    Here's a separate question regarding Lantern Ring - Limited by Imagination. Does Doomcaliber Skeletal Warrior stop the damage from occurring (thus getting knocked out) for one turn, or does it prevent the action die from being fielded?

    Also, if I have Red Dragon and my opponent has Doomcaliber, if I play Millenium puzzle does it go onto the field, or is Doomcaliber knocked out and I lose my action die?

    Red Dragon:
    While active, once per turn when you use an action die effect, you may use a second copy of its effect.

    Doomcaliber Knight:
    When an opponent uses an action die, you must cancel the effect and knock out this monster.
    Millennium Puzzle is used once its set on the field. For the effect to take action is on your call. As for Red Dragon its as soon you use the puzzles effect that the Dragons second effect occurs (by your own choice).

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight4612 View Post
    At what point do Continuous Action Dice get "used"? For instance, does Millenium Puzzle get "used" when its played on the field? Or when it sends a character to the used pile?

    So if Red Dragon is on the field, if I draw a Millenium Puzzle and play it on the field, are there now two Millenium Puzzles on the field?

    Or, if I have Millenium Puzzle on the field, then draw and field my Red Dragon, can I use send two characters to used?

    Here's a separate question regarding Lantern Ring - Limited by Imagination. Does Doomcaliber Skeletal Warrior stop the damage from occurring (thus getting knocked out) for one turn, or does it prevent the action die from being fielded?

    Also, if I have Red Dragon and my opponent has Doomcaliber, if I play Millenium puzzle does it go onto the field, or is Doomcaliber knocked out and I lose my action die?

    Red Dragon:
    While active, once per turn when you use an action die effect, you may use a second copy of its effect.

    Doomcaliber Knight:
    When an opponent uses an action die, you must cancel the effect and knock out this monster.
    Continuous actions are considered used once they are fielded. So you wouldn't be able to use red dragons ability on something like mill puzzle. It wouldn't do anything.

    As stated earlier, continuous actions like Lantern Ring are considered used when they are fielded. Doom Cal would prevent the die from being fielded, if it's already in the field when you get your Doom Cal out, it's too late.

    If your opponent has doom cal and you field a mill puzzle, as stated before. The doom cal must be KOd and will cancel the action dice from being used(fielded)

    Red dragon doesn't work for continuous actions because they are used when fielded, so there isn't any action effect to use at that point.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by RainCityJenna View Post
    Continuous actions are considered used once they are fielded. So you wouldn't be able to use red dragons ability on something like mill puzzle. It wouldn't do anything.

    As stated earlier, continuous actions like Lantern Ring are considered used when they are fielded. Doom Cal would prevent the die from being fielded, if it's already in the field when you get your Doom Cal out, it's too late.

    If your opponent has doom cal and you field a mill puzzle, as stated before. The doom cal must be KOd and will cancel the action dice from being used(fielded)

    Red dragon doesn't work for continuous actions because they are used when fielded, so there isn't any action effect to use at that point.
    Counter argument. Looking at the Red Dragon Text

    "While active, once per turn when you use an action die effect, you may use a second copy of its effect." Its valid combo.
    Last edited by VastSpartan; 01-25-2016 at 08:35 PM.

  5. #5
    @VastSpartan is correct, Red Dragon (and also Blue Dragon) procs when you use an action die's effect, not when you use an action die.

    The ruling that determined that action dice are used when they leave the reserve pool explicitly states that using an action die's effect from the field doesn't count as using it. This is a direct acknowledgement that you can use an action die'a effect from the field, even though it will not qualify as using the action.

    I made a PSA about this a week or two ago because I originally ruled this incorrectly at my local PDC event. My invent seemed pretty stalwart, so I made sure to double check and look for an exact citation and wound up proving him correct. This is established by ruling and there can't really be any decayed unless you want to argue the difference between "effect" and "ability" as that's the only difference between Blue and Red Dragons' abilities/effects.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    @VastSpartan is correct, Red Dragon (and also Blue Dragon) procs when you use an action die's effect, not when you use an action die.

    The ruling that determined that action dice are used when they leave the reserve pool explicitly states that using an action die's effect from the field doesn't count as using it. This is a direct acknowledgement that you can use an action die'a effect from the field, even though it will not qualify as using the action.

    I made a PSA about this a week or two ago because I originally ruled this incorrectly at my local PDC event. My invent seemed pretty stalwart, so I made sure to double check and look for an exact citation and wound up proving him correct. This is established by ruling and there can't really be any decayed unless you want to argue the difference between "effect" and "ability" as that's the only difference between Blue and Red Dragons' abilities/effects.
    Exactly, using an action die from the field doesn't count as using it, it's the moment it leaves the reserve pool, which means when you field the die, making it leave the reserve pool is what counts as using the die, which is consistent with every other ruling about when a continuous die is considered to be used.

    The ruling in question, about blue dragon redirects to Dr Strange, and it states that for that ability, that he procs when the die leaves the reserve pool, not when the die is used from the field zone. Not sure how you're interpreting that any differently.

    Therefor, for continuous actions, the dice is considered used when it is fielded, which does nothing with red dragon, as the simple act of fielding the die doesn't do anything.

    It's like paying 1 with Baron Zemo to move a used die to the prep area. The die is used when fielded, it doesn't entitle you to use it's effect.

    Furthermore, think of it in the realm of D&D, are you saying that we have tiny little invisible gear that stay out on the field... uh, no. It does nothing with continuous actions.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RainCityJenna View Post
    Exactly, using an action die from the field doesn't count as using it, it's the moment it leaves the reserve pool, which means when you field the die, making it leave the reserve pool is what counts as using the die, which is consistent with every other ruling about when a continuous die is considered to be used.

    The ruling in question, about blue dragon redirects to Dr Strange, and it states that for that ability, that he procs when the die leaves the reserve pool, not when the die is used from the field zone. Not sure how you're interpreting that any differently.

    Therefor, for continuous actions, the dice is considered used when it is fielded, which does nothing with red dragon, as the simple act of fielding the die doesn't do anything.

    It's like paying 1 with Baron Zemo to move a used die to the prep area. The die is used when fielded, it doesn't entitle you to use it's effect.

    Furthermore, think of it in the realm of D&D, are you saying that we have tiny little invisible gear that stay out on the field... uh, no. It does nothing with continuous actions.
    It's all restatement here, but the core of the matter is this:

    Red and Blue Dragon both trigger "when you use an action die's effect/ability..."
    This is distinctly different from "when you use an action die..."
    The official ruling on "using" action dice directly acknowledges that you can use an action die's effect from the field
    "When action dice use effects from the Field Zone, Dr. Strange doesn't trigger."
    As such, both Red and Blue Dragon will proc off of action dice with an effect that is used in the field like Lantern Battery - Recharge and the Millennium Items.

    Unless you are going to directly ignore the WizKids ruling on Doctor Strange and using action dice, then there's nothing to argue about other than whether or not "ability" and "effect" are synonymous between the two Dragons' effects/abilities. For the record, only the Red and Blue Dragons use the terminology of "effect/ability." This wording doesn't exist on other characters in the game like Baron Zemo and so clearly this interaction does not extend to him either.

    As far as how this interacts with continuous actions like Lantern Ring or the equipment like you mentioned (which technically has Equip, not Continuous), it doesn't really. Continuous is a static ability and isn't ever triggered. Lantern Ring would not change at all since it's effect is purely "while active," rather it's the characters that get triggered effects. You would be able to equip Gear again, but that would necessarily move the equipment with it and result in no real benefit (I'm not advocating for tokens in any way shape or form *shudder*).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    It's all restatement here, but the core of the matter is this:

    Red and Blue Dragon both trigger "when you use an action die's effect/ability..."
    This is distinctly different from "when you use an action die..."
    The official ruling on "using" action dice directly acknowledges that you can use an action die's effect from the field
    "When action dice use effects from the Field Zone, Dr. Strange doesn't trigger."
    As such, both Red and Blue Dragon will proc off of action dice with an effect that is used in the field like Lantern Battery - Recharge and the Millennium Items.

    Unless you are going to directly ignore the WizKids ruling on Doctor Strange and using action dice, then there's nothing to argue about other than whether or not "ability" and "effect" are synonymous between the two Dragons' effects/abilities. For the record, only the Red and Blue Dragons use the terminology of "effect/ability." This wording doesn't exist on other characters in the game like Baron Zemo and so clearly this interaction does not extend to him either.

    As far as how this interacts with continuous actions like Lantern Ring or the equipment like you mentioned (which technically has Equip, not Continuous), it doesn't really. Continuous is a static ability and isn't ever triggered. Lantern Ring would not change at all since it's effect is purely "while active," rather it's the characters that get triggered effects. You would be able to equip Gear again, but that would necessarily move the equipment with it and result in no real benefit (I'm not advocating for tokens in any way shape or form *shudder*).
    Both rulings, specifically the one about Blue Dragon and a continuous action (Cerebro), which redirects to Dr Strange, which is the explanation for how Red Dragon works states that it procs when the die leaves the reserve pool. Blue Dragon would deal the 1 damage when you place the cerebro die on the card (when it leaves the reserve) NOT when you use the cards ability to KO a die.... Blue Dragon's ability and Red Dragon's abilities are one in the same when it comes to treating continuous actions.

    Blue Dragon would deal one damage when you place cerebro on a card. Red Dragon would proc when you place the continuous action die in the field, not when you "use the effect or ability" This means that using the Red Dragon ability on a continuous action does nothing.

    How are you interpreting the Blue Dragon and Dr Strange ruling as them dealing damage when you "use" the action dies ability. It explicitly states that their abilities trigger when the die leaves the reserve.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    (I'm not advocating for tokens in any way shape or form *shudder*).
    But I bought some just for you! Lol

  10. #10
    .......Okay. So then we agree.

    Red Dragon effect with the Millennium puzzle is valid. You cant deny it when the text is read "when you use an action die effect, you may use a second copy of its effect" is in its own words.

    So /Thread (for me)

  11. #11
    The "effect" of "using" a Continuous Action Die is moving it from the Reserve Pool to the Field Zone (or a character card, in some cases. Dr. Strange ruling is pretty clear about that. I don't think there's (supposed to be) a difference between "using" an Action die and "using it's ability/effect".

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by VastSpartan View Post
    .......Okay. So then we agree.

    Red Dragon effect with the Millennium puzzle is valid. You cant deny it when the text is read "when you use an action die effect, you may use a second copy of its effect" is in its own words.

    So /Thread (for me)
    Seriously? No...Did you read with your eyes closed? I definitely don't agree.

    Blue Dragon: "While active, whenever you use an action die's ability, deal 1 damage to all characters (both players')." It's been ruled, as with every action die, it's used when it leaves the reserve. Meaning he deals one damage when the die leaves the reserve pool, not when you activate the ability.

    Red Dragon: "While active, once per turn when you use an action die effect, you may use a second copy of its effect." He would proc, just as Blue Dragon does when the die leaves the reserve pool. You aren't using the dies effect on a continuous action when the die leaves the reserve, and it doesn't count as using the die when in the field. Therefore Red Dragon's ability does NOTHING with a continuous action.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by RainCityJenna View Post
    Seriously? No...Did you read with your eyes closed? I definitely don't agree.

    Blue Dragon: "While active, whenever you use an action die's ability, deal 1 damage to all characters (both players')." It's been ruled, as with every action die, it's used when it leaves the reserve. Meaning he deals one damage when the die leaves the reserve pool, not when you activate the ability.

    Red Dragon: "While active, once per turn when you use an action die effect, you may use a second copy of its effect." He would proc, just as Blue Dragon does when the die leaves the reserve pool. You aren't using the dies effect on a continuous action when the die leaves the reserve, and it doesn't count as using the die when in the field. Therefore Red Dragon's ability does NOTHING with a continuous action.
    Damn woman, dont yell at me.

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  14. #14
    Let's do a very simple syllogism:

    Red Dragon will proc when you use an action die effect.
    The Doctor Strange Ruling states that you can use an action die effect from the field.
    You use the effect of the action die Millennium Puzzle from the field.
    This will proc Red Dragon.

    I don't know how better to get this across...



    Quote Originally Posted by RainCityJenna View Post
    Both rulings, specifically the one about Blue Dragon and a continuous action (Cerebro), which redirects to Dr Strange, which is the explanation for how Red Dragon works states that it procs when the die leaves the reserve pool. Blue Dragon would deal the 1 damage when you place the cerebro die on the card (when it leaves the reserve) NOT when you use the cards ability to KO a die.... Blue Dragon's ability and Red Dragon's abilities are one in the same when it comes to treating continuous actions.

    Blue Dragon would deal one damage when you place cerebro on a card. Red Dragon would proc when you place the continuous action die in the field, not when you "use the effect or ability" This means that using the Red Dragon ability on a continuous action does nothing.

    How are you interpreting the Blue Dragon and Dr Strange ruling as them dealing damage when you "use" the action dies ability. It explicitly states that their abilities trigger when the die leaves the reserve.
    The Blue Dragon Ruling confirms that Blue Dragon works when a standard action die is used and does not mention Cerebro. This is in keeping with how Blue Dragon works.
    The explanation of Cerebro is only ever mentioned in the context of "using" an action die for Dr. Strange's effect. Never does Blue Dragon enter into the topic.
    You are, however, correct in how you apply Blue Dragon's effect specifically because the Cerebro/Storm Ruling states that Cerebro's effect is that in which it targets a character die to be attached to, not that it KO's a character. You were wrong about this. I misread the ruling as saying something it didn't say.
    Your statement that Blue and Red Dragon treat all Continuous action dice like Cerebro is baseless for the simple fact that Cerebro is not Continuous in the first place, establishing no precedence.

    Blue Dragon and Red Dragon have unique wordings that specify "using effects" of action dice, not "using" action dice. The Dr. Strange Ruling explicitly states that the two are separate and that some action dice like the Millennium Puzzle specifically named in the ruling can activate their effect from the field, entirely distinct from the moment they are used. This is pretty cut and dry with rulings and citations to cover the whole scenario. Again, unless you're going to outright ignore the WKRF, then it's not really a question of whether or not the Dragons trigger off of Millenium Puzzle, but which other action dice they interact with in unique ways and how does Red Dragon in specific copy certain effects.
    Last edited by Necromanticer; 01-27-2016 at 09:14 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RainCityJenna View Post
    Blue Dragon: "While active, whenever you use an action die's ability, deal 1 damage to all characters (both players')." It's been ruled, as with every action die, it's used when it leaves the reserve. Meaning he deals one damage when the die leaves the reserve pool, not when you activate the ability.
    Here's the disconnect: Everyone agrees that an action die is "used" when it leaves the reserve pool. However, Blue and Red Dragon don't proc when an action die is used, they specifically proc when an action die's effect is used. This is normally the exact same time as the action die is played as is the case for the only action interaction explained in the Rules Forum: Blue Dragon and Magic Missile. However, for some dice (specifically continuous dice and gear), this is a different timing. Instead, they can often have their effects activated while they are on the field, not when they are played there as is the case with Millennium Puzzle.

    The Dr. Strange Ruling directly explains this in the final post, declaring that:
    "Dr. Strange's ability happens when the die is removed from the Reserve Pool for its effect (whether that moves it to the Field Zone or the Used Pile or Out of Play). When action dice use effects from the Field Zone, Dr. Strange doesn't trigger."

  16. #16

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromanticer View Post
    Here's the disconnect: Everyone agrees that an action die is "used" when it leaves the reserve pool. However, Blue and Red Dragon don't proc when an action die is used, they specifically proc when an action die's effect is used. This is normally the exact same time as the action die is played as is the case for the only action interaction explained in the Rules Forum: Blue Dragon and Magic Missile. However, for some dice (specifically continuous dice and gear), this is a different timing. Instead, they can often have their effects activated while they are on the field, not when they are played there as is the case with Millennium Puzzle.

    The Dr. Strange Ruling directly explains this in the final post, declaring that:
    "Dr. Strange's ability happens when the die is removed from the Reserve Pool for its effect (whether that moves it to the Field Zone or the Used Pile or Out of Play). When action dice use effects from the Field Zone, Dr. Strange doesn't trigger."
    Sigh.... both of the rulings are explaining that they proc when the die leaves the reserve pool. They directed the question to the Dr Strange ruling to explain that continuous actions for the purposes of explain when the dies effect is used is when the die leaves the reserve. Meaning that both Blue Dragon and Dr Strange deal damage when the die leaves the reserve.

    If I have Blue Dragon active, and I play cerebro on a card, Blue Dragon deals it's 1 damage when you place the die on the card. Not when you activate the ability to KO a character, the same would apply with Mill Puzzle, Blue Dragon would trigger when I move the puzzle into the field NOT when I move a die to the used pile using the puzzle.

    Play it how you want, but I won't be looking at, or responding to this anymore, it's a moot point. Clearly you are of the assumption that blue dragon's effect procs when you would use the ability in the field and not when it leaves the reserve pool, which is directly the opposite of what that ruling explains.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by pk2317 View Post
    The "effect" of "using" a Continuous Action Die is moving it from the Reserve Pool to the Field Zone (or a character card, in some cases. Dr. Strange ruling is pretty clear about that. I don't think there's (supposed to be) a difference between "using" an Action die and "using it's ability/effect".
    And whats your opinion on Millennium Puzzle and Red Dragon?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RainCityJenna View Post
    Sigh.... both of the rulings are explaining that they proc when the die leaves the reserve pool. They directed the question to the Dr Strange ruling to explain that continuous actions for the purposes of explain when the dies effect is used is when the die leaves the reserve. Meaning that both Blue Dragon and Dr Strange deal damage when the die leaves the reserve.

    If I have Blue Dragon active, and I play cerebro on a card, Blue Dragon deals it's 1 damage when you place the die on the card. Not when you activate the ability to KO a character, the same would apply with Mill Puzzle, Blue Dragon would trigger when I move the puzzle into the field NOT when I move a die to the used pile using the puzzle.

    Play it how you want, but I won't be looking at, or responding to this anymore, it's a moot point. Clearly you are of the assumption that blue dragon's effect procs when you would use the ability in the field and not when it leaves the reserve pool, which is directly the opposite of what that ruling explains.
    Millennium Puzzle is an errata http://wizkidseventsystem.com/bb/vie...hp?f=10&t=4588

    "Millennium Puzzle: The Eternal Dungeon
    Continuous. You may move this die to your Used Pile to send one opposing monster to the Used Pile. (You may use this ability when you may play a Global Ability. This die stays fielded until used.)

    Their words. The Red Dragon Effect is valid. ""While active, once per turn when you use an action die effect, you may use a second copy of its effect."

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by RainCityJenna View Post
    Sigh.... both of the rulings are explaining that they proc when the die leaves the reserve pool. They directed the question to the Dr Strange ruling to explain that continuous actions for the purposes of explain when the dies effect is used is when the die leaves the reserve. Meaning that both Blue Dragon and Dr Strange deal damage when the die leaves the reserve.

    If I have Blue Dragon active, and I play cerebro on a card, Blue Dragon deals it's 1 damage when you place the die on the card. Not when you activate the ability to KO a character, the same would apply with Mill Puzzle, Blue Dragon would trigger when I move the puzzle into the field NOT when I move a die to the used pile using the puzzle.

    Play it how you want, but I won't be looking at, or responding to this anymore, it's a moot point. Clearly you are of the assumption that blue dragon's effect procs when you would use the ability in the field and not when it leaves the reserve pool, which is directly the opposite of what that ruling explains.
    Okay, even if you want to plug your ears, it's important to quash misinformation like this for when players try to look up this interaction.

    Your issue with my syllogism is the premise that Red and Blue Dragon do not proc when you use an action die effect, but rather when you use an action die outright. Your sole support for this conclusion is the ruling on Blue Dragon that redirects to the ruling on Dr. Strange.

    This is a flawed protest because of what that ruling actually says. The ruling in question was asking the difference between using an action die's effect and using an actions global. The ruling only applies to the difference between an action's global and its effect. In keeping with that, Dr. Strange's Ruling was linked because it clearly establishes when you use a regular action die's effect, specifically when you play it from the reserve pool. This link does not at all imply that Blue Dragon's effect has the same trigger as Dr. Strange and you can only reach that conclusion by ignoring context.

    As such, the premise stands and there's no support for ignoring WizKids' ruling. Blue and Red Dragon will proc when you use action dice effects from the field exactly as WizKids describes.

  21. #21
    I see both sides to this and currently lean towards Red/Blue Dragons activating on the actual activation of Puzzle and not just playing it to the field. I throw this out there, though:

    - Does Blue Dragon proc when you play Lantern Ring to the field?
    - If so, does Blue Dragon proc when you play Millennium Puzzle to the field?
    - If so, does Blue Dragon also proc when you activate Puzzle?
    - If so, should it?

    I feel like the first two steps should not be contradictory. If Blue Dragon procs on Lantern Ring fielding then it necessarily has to proc on Puzzle fielding, too. If that is the case, I have trouble swallowing that the intent of the ability is to work both on the fielding of a continuous action and also on the activation of an action, where applicable. Intent aside, however, I do feel that the current wordings support that interpretation in cases such as Puzzle until we hear otherwise from WK.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    I see both sides to this and currently lean towards Red/Blue Dragons activating on the actual activation of Puzzle and not just playing it to the field. I throw this out there, though:

    - Does Blue Dragon proc when you play Lantern Ring to the field?
    - If so, does Blue Dragon proc when you play Millennium Puzzle to the field?
    - If so, does Blue Dragon also proc when you activate Puzzle?
    - If so, should it?

    I feel like the first two steps should not be contradictory. If Blue Dragon procs on Lantern Ring fielding then it necessarily has to proc on Puzzle fielding, too. If that is the case, I have trouble swallowing that the intent of the ability is to work both on the fielding of a continuous action and also on the activation of an action, where applicable. Intent aside, however, I do feel that the current wordings support that interpretation in cases such as Puzzle until we hear otherwise from WK.
    The problem is that the Puzzle and Rod are very unique action dice. They had continuous because like the upcoming Delayed Fireball, their effect was delayed until used. This is why Blue Dragon, Doctor Strange, and Red Dragon wait until these particular die's effects trigger. Another perspective is that the process for those actions are in limbo until activation. They are pending so to say.

    As for the Lantern Rings and Batteries, I would like to believe base on the Doctor Strange rulings for Cerebro apply. Meaning that when you field these dice, Doctor Strange triggers, but not after each continuous use. These action dice have multiple use per die, unlike the puzzle and rod that are one time use. This prevents creating an auto turret gun team.

  23. #23
    @bahamut7 Very good point. One must take into account that when certain rulings were made, they were done under the game state in effect at that time. As additional sets are released, new mechanisms are introduced (e.g. having Action Dice be Continuous) that alter or conflict with the standing rules canon.

    These forums harness the collective knowledge and experience of players to resolve these continuity situations, using rule precedents, logic and game play reasonableness until we receive an official ruling.

    Those of us who are TOs or judges need to be aware of the various interpretations of these situations and inform our players how we will adjudicate the game play for these applicable effects.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by archivist View Post
    @bahamut7 Very good point. One must take into account that when certain rulings were made, they were done under the game state in effect at that time. As additional sets are released, new mechanisms are introduced (e.g. having Action Dice be Continuous) that alter or conflict with the standing rules canon.

    These forums harness the collective knowledge and experience of players to resolve these continuity situations, using rule precedents, logic and game play reasonableness until we receive an official ruling.

    Those of us who are TOs or judges need to be aware of the various interpretations of these situations and inform our players how we will adjudicate the game play for these applicable effects.
    Funny thing is that @RainCityJenna is a TO. I can only hope this combo doesn't arise in one of her locals.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by alleyviper View Post
    I see both sides to this and currently lean towards Red/Blue Dragons activating on the actual activation of Puzzle and not just playing it to the field. I throw this out there, though:

    - Does Blue Dragon proc when you play Lantern Ring to the field?
    - If so, does Blue Dragon proc when you play Millennium Puzzle to the field?
    - If so, does Blue Dragon also proc when you activate Puzzle?
    - If so, should it?

    I feel like the first two steps should not be contradictory. If Blue Dragon procs on Lantern Ring fielding then it necessarily has to proc on Puzzle fielding, too. If that is the case, I have trouble swallowing that the intent of the ability is to work both on the fielding of a continuous action and also on the activation of an action, where applicable. Intent aside, however, I do feel that the current wordings support that interpretation in cases such as Puzzle until we hear otherwise from WK.
    These are very good questions and should help people understand how these Dragons work. In order:

    - Blue Dragon will not proc when Lantern Ring enters the field since no action die effect was used.
    - Blue Dragon will not proc when Millennium Puzzle enters the field since no action die effect was used.
    - Blue Dragon will proc when you activate Millennium Puzzle since an action die's effect was used.
    - It should as explained by its own effect and the ruling on Dr. Strange that explains that action dice being used and action dice effects being used are different things.

    Simply put, Continuous is not an activated ability. It is a static ability that persists as long as an action die is in the field, allowing it to remain in play. It's effectively "while active" for action dice.

    As such, some Continuous action dice will never trigger the Dragons. For instance, all the Lantern Rings have no activated ability. Others will be largely irrelevant to Red Dragon like the Rings of Magnetism that would simply be triggered to be played on a character again, removing it from the first of you choose a different character. The Lantern Batteries aside from the uncommon also have no activated ability and so won't do anything with the Dragon's.

    To help understand how this works, let's take a character's effect instead of an action die's, Kang - Time Ship. While he's active, he had the static effect that the opponent cannot reroll their dice in their clear and draw step unless they pay 2 life. This ability is never activated, including when you field Kang, but it is persistent. It's the same with action dice that are Continuous. However, some characters have static effects that can be activated such as Loki - Gem-Keeper which activates when fielded or Loki - Loki Laufeyson which can be activated at global speed.

    As you can see, having an ability doesn't mean that it's always activated when a die is fielded. It's down to the individual effect to determine when it's used and when it is activated.

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